Yeah, thanks Ram4!

I suppose if one really cared, and had one, it wouldn't be too hard to set up a micrometer on a stand to measure crust thickness. I've also seen discussion on pizza forums of dough weight to area ratios.

And at the risk of flames, around here plain cheese pizza is something ordered for little kids. Everybody else gets toppings.

Oh, and for you guys who liked Kaiser's, it's worth going another half mile north to also try Fatman's. And as good as both of those are, most people around here think Quonset is even better.

jnm123 wrote:Ram-O--

I was feeling my territorial pizza oats a little bit when I watched that review, thus the Godfather/GoodFellas references. You liked Kaiser's when we were there, right? Wells Bros. is even better than that. If you haven't been there, trust me. Or we'll go sometime. And we'll sit inside like normal human beings and eat it right out of the oven. Sausage.

No doubt the video was entertaining, albeit in a morbidly fascinating 'why are you eating pizza outside in below-zero weather?' kind of way. Good content is in the eye of the beholder. He grew up on Massachusetts tavern pizza? My family's from there, my cousin owned the Newtown Grill on Mass Ave in Cambridge, rated for many years the 'best dive bar pizza'--whateverthehell that means. They really like their pepperoni in Boston. And truth be told the quality was only fair in comparison to the top of the line thin around these parts. However, your most accurate comment was this one, and for that I must give out props:

"Our thin tavern-style pizza reaches another level with sausage but to me a tavern-cheese pizza is not usually going to compete with the greats of the East Coast. I am the first to admit that. Their dough is superior. You could easily make a bread from their dough, not Chicago pizza dough."

Be good to see you at a future LTHNLG luncheon.

Jay

Thanks Jay. Yes, I have been to Wells Brothers many times and it's one of my favorites. Look forward to a future LTH luncheon as well.

Katie wrote:Really nice, thorough write-up, Ram4. Thanks for taking the time. I agree with Jay: it'll be good to see you at more LTHNG lunches --- especially when really good pizza is involved!

Thank you! I will definitely be back. I would have gone to the Wells Brothers one, but I was leaving town the next day for over 2 months!

The GP wrote:Echoing others, thanks for the write-up, Ram4! I still haven't clicked on the link for the Dave P's reviews, but you gave some helpful backstory.

Thank you as well! Some of his reviews are sure to turn people off and some might make you actually like him.

tjr wrote:Yeah, thanks Ram4!

I suppose if one really cared, and had one, it wouldn't be too hard to set up a micrometer on a stand to measure crust thickness. I've also seen discussion on pizza forums of dough weight to area ratios.

And at the risk of flames, around here plain cheese pizza is something ordered for little kids. Everybody else gets toppings.

Oh, and for you guys who liked Kaiser's, it's worth going another half mile north to also try Fatman's. And as good as both of those are, most people around here think Quonset is even better.

Thank you too! It is interesting about measuring because one of the strangest things is at Marie's Pizza. When it's paper thin and fresh out of the oven in the restaurant it's as good as any in the country to me. When it's slightly thicker it's merely average. How is that possible?! So strange.

The "you have to order a topping thing because only little children order cheese" is a personal one for me (but I am not attacking you here - just the statement). I almost always get cheese on the East Coast because it's their number one ordered style (by plenty of tough guys) and I don't personally care for other toppings except sausage (and basil I suppose counts as a topping) and they don't typically do sausage well (as I said earlier) or offer it at all on a slice/square. I have had tomato pies out east as well as grandma style or an occasional cheese pizza outlier like the cacio e pepe sqaures at Pizza Collective or Mamas Too. But I don't buy the cheese pizza is for little kids shame. People get tomato pies in New Haven that is literally sauce and crust plus a little oil and sprinkle of cheese. No one is making fun of them. Do people say they only give plain cheesecake to little children? Because to me I may want the taste of plain cheesecake. Adding anything to it changes it to something different. I have had over a dozen cheesecake varieties but my favorite remains classic plain with a graham cracker crust. So pardon me for my post here but it rubs me the wrong way a little.

I would love the LTHNLG to do a Fatman and Quonset trip one day. I have had Quonset once but I didn't care much for my sausage pizza nor did my friend who got pepperoni on his pizza. Hope it was a fluke.

Ram4 wrote:The "you have to order a topping thing because only little children order cheese" is a personal one for me (but I am not attacking you here - just the statement). ...

I think you missed the "Around here" at the beginning of my sentence, meaning in Chicago and Milwaukee. I suppose I should have made more clear that I was pointing out the difference from other areas of the country where adults do indeed eat cheese pizza. Hope I didn't offend when I didn't mean to.

And some of us country folks grew up on frozen pizza or Chef Boyardee pizza kits doctored up with anything from peppers from the garden to ham from the locker plant to deer sausage to anchovies, maybe even smoked carp. There was always something on there. Not particularly good pizza, but nobody knew any better.

tjr wrote:

Ram4 wrote:The "you have to order a topping thing because only little children order cheese" is a personal one for me (but I am not attacking you here - just the statement). ...

I think you missed the "Around here" at the beginning of my sentence, meaning in Chicago and Milwaukee. I suppose I should have made more clear that I was pointing out the difference from other areas of the country where adults do indeed eat cheese pizza. Hope I didn't offend when I didn't mean to.

And some of us country folks grew up on frozen pizza or Chef Boyardee pizza kits doctored up with anything from peppers from the garden to ham from the locker plant to deer sausage to anchovies, maybe even smoked carp. There was always something on there. Not particularly good pizza, but nobody knew any better.

I know you meant "around here."

On another note sort of related I cannot tell you how annoying it is to talk with so called pizza fans around here who thumb their nose at New York or New Haven never having been there let alone never having eaten pizza there ("I've had New York style pizza at Sbarro." No, actually you haven't). On the other hand it goes the same way in reverse with the New Yorkers rolling their eyes at the mention of Chicago pizza. They are shocked that thin is our main style - most have no idea and certainly are basing their assumptions of Chicago pizza by mediocre deep dish out of town or stuffed pizza. I was at DeLorenzo's Tomato Pies (which doesn't really serve what I call a tomato pie - they have cheese on them) near Trenton NJ talking with one of the owners and letting him know I had a pizza lovers dream day having eaten at both John's of Bleeker St for lunch and now DeLorenzo's for dinner - two of my top ten in the country. His response was "Yeah, but we're better!" I said, "You can't say that - you are two different styles. And if you really loved pizza, you would be happy to have both!" He laughed and sort of agreed - I know he has to pull for his own joint but why? Plenty of restaurants can fully admit they love other joints. Nothing wrong with it.

Frankly, I would forgo the profanity laced review and just order a pizza from Wells!!!
I never heard of this guy, it was my first time watching him and it will be my last.
Problem is, Wells is now slammed, good luck getting through by phone.
Problem for-those of us close to Racine where Wells Pizza is on their regular routine.
-Richard

budrichard wrote:Frankly, I would forgo the profanity laced review and just order a pizza from Wells!!!
I never heard of this guy, it was my first time watching him and it will be my last.
Problem is, Wells is now slammed, good luck getting through by phone.
Problem for-those of us close to Racine where Wells Pizza is on their regular routine.
-Richard

I hear the Milwaukee location is not as busy.

Ironic, since that is the location he visited.

Buddy

Yeah I wonder how many people are fighting with their car nav looking for Mead St in Milwaukee?

And technically Wells isn't even in Racine, it's in Mt. Pleasant.

Will newbies eat their pizzas on the sidewalk holding the bag with one hand and the slice in the other? That's the authentic f'in' way!

budrichard wrote:Frankly, I would forgo the profanity laced review and just order a pizza from Wells!!!
I never heard of this guy, it was my first time watching him and it will be my last.
Problem is, Wells is now slammed, good luck getting through by phone.
Problem for-those of us close to Racine where Wells Pizza is on their regular routine.
-Richard

I will update this in my other post but once Dave reviews a pizzeria and he likes it they will be overwhelmed with explosive growth. It will take time for the wave of interest to die back down. But most people ask for it. They'll say a place is "the best" over and over to everyone they talk to. Ok, now a half million people heard it's the best and they want to try it. You got what you asked for.

Wow, I guess I don't understand the power of celebrity. This guy's video gave very few facts about the pizza or the restaurant. It was mostly about himself. Didn't talk about toppings, other foods available, atmosphere, price, nothing. I've tried to go to a few places post-Check Please! with the same results, but those reviews were quite detailed and gave a pretty good feel for what to expect. Best thing seemed to be to DVR the episodes and watch them after a month or two, then go.

Call to Wells Bros today: "This that one place that was on YouTube? I wanna cheese pizza, no f'in sausage, no f'in mushrooms, no f'in onions. And it better be f'in ready when I f'in get there. Whadaya mean you're in Racine? Where d'h is Racine? You're supposed to be in f'in Milwaukee!"

tjr wrote:Wow, I guess I don't understand the power of celebrity. This guy's video gave very few facts about the pizza or the restaurant. It was mostly about himself. ...

So right, and if I remember correctly, about the little kiddies saving their pennies to travel all over the country to buy pizza. He actually makes me not want to go to any place he goes to. Luckily, he'll never come to Oregon. We are not known for our pizza (for good reason I think. Although I've never had Chicago, Detroit, New York, or New Jersey pizza.)

Sounds like a strategy, Xexo: No good pizza 'round here, no sir, not at all, not in this ol' briar patch.

I do believe I saw something (didn't read it) about Oregon's pizza being the most expensive in the USA. Too bad it doesn't live up to the price.

Xexo wrote:He actually makes me not want to go to any place he goes to. Luckily, he'll never come to Oregon. We are not known for our pizza (for good reason I think. Although I've never had Chicago, Detroit, New York, or New Jersey pizza.)

Not wanting to go to a potentially great restaurant because you don't like a guy who likes it is an interesting approach to life, but to each their own. That said, the claim that Oregon, specifically Portland, is not known for pizza is emphatically incorrect. If Barstool opens a casino in Portland or the Trailblazers or any of Oregon's college football or basketball teams become title contenders, Portnoy will visit. And as the most prolific pizzeria reviewer in human history, he'll shoot videos from every well known spot.

MarlaCollins'Husband wrote:

Xexo wrote:He actually makes me not want to go to any place he goes to. Luckily, he'll never come to Oregon. We are not known for our pizza (for good reason I think. Although I've never had Chicago, Detroit, New York, or New Jersey pizza.)

Not wanting to go to a potentially great restaurant because you don't like a guy who likes it is an interesting approach to life, but to each their own. That said, the claim that Oregon, specifically Portland, is not known for pizza is emphatically incorrect. If Barstool opens a casino in Portland or the Trailblazers or any of Oregon's college football or basketball teams become title contenders, Portnoy will visit. And as the most prolific pizzeria reviewer in human history, he'll shoot videos from every well known spot.

Well, as has been posted, he talks more about himself than the places he goes to. But then going to places because he likes them is just as odd to me. But whatever floats your boat.

Surprisingly enough, Oregon consists of more than just Portland. I'd only heard of one of those places (and I believe it has a different owner than when that article was published, but I could be wrong). Handsome has closed. I will try some of them on that list. Just most of the places are a nightmare (from an Oregonian's point of view) traffic wise.

Maybe that's what ticked me off more than anything else--that a guy with as big a forum as apparently Barstool has would simply go through the motions as far as actually reviewing the attributes and detriments of the pizza itself.

It's not a commentary. It's Portnoy saying, 'Yeah, I'm here, I'm eating it, it's good, it has a great 'undercarriage'...' and then his sheeple bomb the place for months. Kinda reminds me of when Bourdain came to Burt's. He didn't really get it, either, like Portnoy. There was absolutely no redeeming value in the Portnoy review, but maybe in this info-saturated universe, that's what his ADD viewers crave.

Much better is a long-but-great video review on Wells Brothers from 'America's Best Restaurants' and a guy who understands pizza and savors the history of the establishment. His tasting the pizza (sausage/cheese thank God!) comes in at about 18:00. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS4aGV7gtIw&t=1259s

jnm123 wrote:Much better is a long-but-great video review on Wells Brothers from 'America's Best Restaurants' and a guy who understands pizza and savors the history of the establishment. His tasting the pizza (sausage/cheese thank God!) comes in at about 18:00. Enjoy!

"America's Best Restaurants" seems to be a marketing firm that restaurants can hire to help promote their business.

The very notion of coming up with reasons to not visit places/try something/seek something out seems so completely antithetical to what LTH used to be all about. Not saying it's not valid but it's very against the grain and it makes me sad.

jnm123 wrote:Kinda reminds me of when Bourdain came to Burt's. He didn't really get it, either . . .

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Perhaps he went into it unknowingly (he was brought there by Louisa Chu) but he came to get it entirely, and almost immediately. He adored Burt, his place and its entire ethos. Let's not revise history . . .



=R=

jnm123 wrote:Maybe that's what ticked me off more than anything else--that a guy with as big a forum as apparently Barstool has would simply go through the motions as far as actually reviewing the attributes and detriments of the pizza itself.

It's not a commentary. It's Portnoy saying, 'Yeah, I'm here, I'm eating it, it's good, it has a great 'undercarriage'...' and then his sheeple bomb the place for months. Kinda reminds me of when Bourdain came to Burt's. He didn't really get it, either, like Portnoy. There was absolutely no redeeming value in the Portnoy review, but maybe in this info-saturated universe, that's what his ADD viewers crave.

I can see where you are coming from judging his reviews by this one. He's literally tasting it and giving a score. Not really analyzing it. However it was absolutely freezing outside and he probably wanted to get out of there. I know what you will say next - then why bother? Well, his mission is to post a review every single day of the year no matter what and if he happens to be in town, then reviews have to be made. But even GWiv watches his videos as I do. He does talk about the attributes and the detriments of the pizzas all the time. We know what he's going to be looking for: thin, crisp, well done, not too much cheese and then we want that score. Sometimes he will be blown away by a style that he admits is not his favorite like at Brooklyn Square in Jackson Township, NJ which he gave an 8.9 to their Sicilian square that was based on the legendary L&B Spumoni Gardens (a place he didn't like and called them L&B Spumokey Gardens to mock them-I thought L&B was solid but nothing special). I really liked it too, but I loved Brooklyn Square's take on the DiFara square even more. It's really amazing that this one place in rural New Jersey can get two totally different styles so right. Anyway, if his score is high enough, it's probably a safe bet to try it for ourselves. Overall he seems to have a fair consistent track record although I have not cared for a handful of places he liked - and that's going to happen if you follow any food critic or reviewer. Sometimes he can be way off too. He gave Lazzara's in Manhattan a 9.3. My friend and I thought it was like Chefboyardee pizza. His reviews help me decide where I may go next because outside of the very famous joints out East that I always knew about (John's, Patsy's, Totonno's, Joe's, DiFara, DeLorenzo's, Sally's, Frank Pepe, etc) I wouldn't always know where to go outside of what local reviews say. His One Bite app makes it easier for me to get an idea of where to go with the map and the scores. I am not on Barstool and I wouldn't consider myself a big fan of his or one of his minions that wears Barstool apparel. It's more for the younger 20 somethings and locker room type jocks. But he's doing something I've wanted to do a long time ago myself so kudos for that.

Xeno wrote:He actually makes me not want to go to any place he goes to.

I know he can be really annoying to many people but what about the food in the videos? Why would you limit yourself because you don't like a guy or how he reviews places? Am I not supposed to go to DeLucia's in Raritan, NJ, one of the oldest pizzerias in the country because of Dave Portnoy's review style? I don't watch to watch him, I am looking at the pizza and it looked amazing. I am thinking what it must be like and if it looks great to me I probably want to try it. Oh wow - he loved it. Gave it a 9.4, one of his highest scores. I think I should check it out. That's all that matters to me. In fact, I DID try to have DeLucia's last summer on my way out there. Since they close at 2:00 after lunch until 4:00 I called around 1:15 to place my carry out order as I was 10 minutes away (I always have to be there before it comes out of the oven for carryout - I want to try it at the optimal moment). They said it was too late and I was really pissed off. I had left the Pittsburgh area super early that morning to drive across most of Pennsylvania to get to New Jersey in time specifically to have this pizza before checking in to my hotel in Princeton. Well, no DeLucia's for me so I settled on going to Conte's in Princeton (another high score from Dave) that I had the previous trip. It was still very good but not quite as good as I remembered. Next time I will do as I do at Tacconelli's in Philadelphia and reserve my dough the moment they open. That way I can ask them to throw it in the oven once I am read (if they are ok with that). Bottom line is - screw him, just look at those pizzas!

ronnie_suburban wrote:The very notion of coming up with reasons to not visit places/try something/seek something out seems so completely antithetical to what LTH used to be all about. Not saying it's not valid but it's very against the grain and it makes me sad.

Completely agree!

Portnoy is a cretin but that would never stop me from trying a restaurant he liked—same for the DDD spots and all the other places publicized by guys I wouldn’t eat with. Their opinions don’t matter unless I know they like something I like.

ronnie_suburban wrote:The very notion of coming up with reasons to not visit places/try something/seek something out seems so completely antithetical to what LTH used to be all about. Not saying it's not valid but it's very against the grain and it makes me sad.

Yes, and there's something more: I find far more useful reviews, recs and opinions from local people like the ones here. Too often, celebrity reviewers or ones from magazines, etc miss the local food terroir that informs what real people on the ground are looking for, and what in turn great local restaurants turn out. In the restaurant reviews and profiles I enjoy and find most informative, the authors spend more time listening and learning than judging. See Cook's Country or Wisconsin Foodie for what I mean.

I wouldn't avoid a celebrity-reviewed restaurant, but I might for the month or so post-review. And I'd hope the restauranteur's head isn't turned by the crowds, the staff isn't turned surly by their expectations, and that they are confident enough to keep doing what they are doing right instead of changing based on the opinion of someone who swoops in once thankfully never to be seen again.

tjr wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:The very notion of coming up with reasons to not visit places/try something/seek something out seems so completely antithetical to what LTH used to be all about. Not saying it's not valid but it's very against the grain and it makes me sad.

Yes, and there's something more: I find far more useful reviews, recs and opinions from local people like the ones here. Too often, celebrity reviewers or ones from magazines, etc miss the local food terroir that informs what real people on the ground are looking for, and what in turn great local restaurants turn out. In the restaurant reviews and profiles I enjoy and find most informative, the authors spend more time listening and learning than judging. See Cook's Country or Wisconsin Foodie for what I mean.

I wouldn't avoid a celebrity-reviewed restaurant, but I might for the month or so post-review. And I'd hope the restauranteur's head isn't turned by the crowds, the staff isn't turned surly by their expectations, and that they are confident enough to keep doing what they are doing right instead of changing based on the opinion of someone who swoops in once thankfully never to be seen again.

AMEN.

Yes, pretty sure that's it.

Discussion on ATK and Kenji's Thin Crust Pizza has moved to Cooking and Shopping.

Regards,
Cathy2

Has anyone been there recently? Thinking of an early-ish Saturday dinner in the near future. Wondering in the Kenji Hype has died down.

We did pickup a week ago, no problem, usual number of people.
-Richard
I doubt many people in Kenosha or Racine County know of Kenji.
I know I didn’t.
Now Sap Sap is another thing, you better order early or they usually sell out of the Sap Mac on Thursday!

budrichard wrote:We did pickup a week ago, no problem, usual number of people.
-Richard
I doubt many people in Kenosha or Racine County know of Kenji.
I know I didn’t.
Now Sap Sap is another thing, you better order early or they usually sell out of the Sap Mac on Thursday!

Thank you Richard.

Dave148 wrote:

budrichard wrote:We did pickup a week ago, no problem, usual number of people.
-Richard
I doubt many people in Kenosha or Racine County know of Kenji.
I know I didn’t.
Now Sap Sap is another thing, you better order early or they usually sell out of the Sap Mac on Thursday!

Thank you Richard.

It wasn't Kenji. It was Dave Portnoy.

=R=

jnm123 wrote:Kinda reminds me of when Bourdain came to Burt's. He didn't really get it, either . . .

ronnie suburban wrote:I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Perhaps he went into it unknowingly (he was brought there by Louisa Chu) but he came to get it entirely, and almost immediately. He adored Burt, his place and its entire ethos. Let's not revise history . . .

Ron--

With our travels, we've become quite fond of audiobooks for the long road trips. And the one we're on now--Bourdain - The Definitive Oral Biography--is a total of 11 hours of fabulous-ness--and we've still got a few hours to go. Interviews with those who knew him intimately--his brother & mother & ex-wife, plus Eric Ripert and a host of others, reveal so much about what made Tony tick, extremely flawed but earnest, especially when it comes to food and making people happy.

So, for the Burt's segment--you were there, right?--I really think Bourdain was being nice, he did enjoy the pizza itself & the concept, but I think he just grooved on the eccentricities of Burt & Sharon more than anything else. I saw that same gleam in his eye when in some faraway hamlet.

Check out the audiobook if you haven't already.

Ciao ciao,

Jay

“ It wasn't Kenji. It was Dave Portnoy.”

Kenji, Portnoy, I was just echoing Dave148’s Post above.
I am not really aware of who is who or follow either!