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Burgers, Burgers
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  • Post #661 - August 1st, 2019, 4:11 pm
    Post #661 - August 1st, 2019, 4:11 pm Post #661 - August 1st, 2019, 4:11 pm
    G Wiv wrote:After a 5-6 year absence had a Bill's Drive-In burger. One bite and thought this is what McD's aspires to be. Tasty in a thin patty with a pickle old school fashion. Not running back, but it won't be 5-years.

    Bill's Drive-In
    120 Asbury Ave
    Evanston, IL 60202
    11AM - 7PM


    I like having this place relatively close by. Really enjoy the tamale w chili, cheese and onions. Only place I've ever seen it served in a styrofoam cup.
  • Post #662 - August 1st, 2019, 6:00 pm
    Post #662 - August 1st, 2019, 6:00 pm Post #662 - August 1st, 2019, 6:00 pm
    Always interested in dive burger joints, Gwiv, going to have to check this place out soon. Thanks for the tip.
    Is the tamale homemade? I tried the tamale at Gene & Jude's and it came warmed up in a plastic wrapper. The meat was some sort of ground beef or pork that was seasoned in a manner that made me think of dog food. Compared to the dogs and fries it was pretty bad.
  • Post #663 - August 1st, 2019, 6:34 pm
    Post #663 - August 1st, 2019, 6:34 pm Post #663 - August 1st, 2019, 6:34 pm
    Uther wrote:Is the tamale homemade? I tried the tamale at Gene & Jude's and it came warmed up in a plastic wrapper. The meat was some sort of ground beef or pork that was seasoned in a manner that made me think of dog food. Compared to the dogs and fries it was pretty bad.

    That is the standard ‘Cornroll Tamale’.

    Dog Day Afternoon, before they moved to North Ave used to have the cornroll in a corn husk. Didn’t improve it much. :)

    For cornroll I always prefer them in a bunch, 4 smaller pieces in a paper wrapper. Johnnie’s Beef has them.

    For the real thing you would have to go to a stand that serves both Mexican and/or American but they are rarely fresh, reheated.
    "Very good... but not my favorite." ~ Johnny Depp as Roux the Gypsy in Chocolat
  • Post #664 - August 2nd, 2019, 9:00 am
    Post #664 - August 2nd, 2019, 9:00 am Post #664 - August 2nd, 2019, 9:00 am
    So a cornroll tamale is a machine-made tamale, not hand-made? The thing reminded me of cheap frozen tamales you buy at the grocery store and reheat in a microwave. Literal dog food compared to the hand made ones with real meat, verde sauce and sour cream you can buy at Maxwell St market or a good Mexican restaurant. It's a little bit shocking to me that a place with otherwise very competent food would sell such a thing. Do they think that people who want some Mexican food with their burger/dog/fries would think this was good?
  • Post #665 - August 2nd, 2019, 9:05 am
    Post #665 - August 2nd, 2019, 9:05 am Post #665 - August 2nd, 2019, 9:05 am
    Uther wrote:So a cornroll tamale is a machine-made tamale, not hand-made? The thing reminded me of cheap frozen tamales you buy at the grocery store and reheat in a microwave. Literal dog food compared to the hand made ones with real meat, verde sauce and sour cream you can buy at Maxwell St market or a good Mexican restaurant. It's a little bit shocking to me that a place with otherwise very competent food would sell such a thing. Do they think that people who want some Mexican food with their burger/dog/fries would think this was good?

    The cornroll predates the influx of Mexican restaurants in Chicago and has a long tradition at hotdog stands and carts and never lost it’s ‘charm’ (?). :)

    Easy for them to throw a couple in the steamer with the dogs and buns.

    As traditional as mustard on a hotdog.

    I always wondered if the center brown core was just coloring or actual meat? :)

    At the grocery store I prefer the ones ‘in a jar’ with the greasy red liquid. :)
    "Very good... but not my favorite." ~ Johnny Depp as Roux the Gypsy in Chocolat
  • Post #666 - August 2nd, 2019, 9:20 am
    Post #666 - August 2nd, 2019, 9:20 am Post #666 - August 2nd, 2019, 9:20 am
    Uther wrote:cheap frozen tamales you buy at the grocery store

    Hot dog stand tamales are like pizza puffs. Either you "get it" or don't. Personally, I dislike pizza puffs, though I've only had one or two bites of one just recently, and am ambivalent on the other.

    Tamales at beef/hot dog joints
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #667 - August 2nd, 2019, 9:55 am
    Post #667 - August 2nd, 2019, 9:55 am Post #667 - August 2nd, 2019, 9:55 am
    Thanks for the link, Gwiv. I knew LTH would have addressed this topic at some point in its long history.
    Don't get me started on pizza puffs sold at dog/burger joints. It's been years since I ordered one but they're almost always this intensely greasy concoction of dough, tomato sauce, cheese and meat that's an insult to a real calzone.

    I eat Taco Bell so I definitely don't have high standards when it comes to Mexican food but for some reason the corn roll tamale filling has a smell that is unpleasant to me. Just artificial and institutional and faintly reminiscent of canned dog food. I'll eat it but won't be happy about it.
    But drowning it in chili and onions and cheese would help make it a lot more palatable. Maybe I'll get one if and when I make it to Bill's. It's definitely cheap enough.
    Last edited by Uther on August 2nd, 2019, 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
  • Post #668 - August 2nd, 2019, 10:12 am
    Post #668 - August 2nd, 2019, 10:12 am Post #668 - August 2nd, 2019, 10:12 am
    I loves me some pizza puffs and when they're cooked properly and eaten right away, they can easily surpass the burgers at the more middling burger places as the best thing on the menu.

    NOT in that middling category is the Rhodes Burger I had last night at Cross~Rhodes in Evanston. Delicious . . .

    Image
    Rhodes Burger w/Gyros and American Cheese, Maria Fries

    =R=

    Cross-Rhodes
    913 Chicago Ave
    Evanston, IL 60202
    (847) 475-4475
    There are many things that are legal that are not a great idea --Nick Shabazz

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #669 - August 2nd, 2019, 1:47 pm
    Post #669 - August 2nd, 2019, 1:47 pm Post #669 - August 2nd, 2019, 1:47 pm
    G Wiv wrote:After a 5-6 year absence had a Bill's Drive-In burger. One bite and thought this is what McD's aspires to be. Tasty in a thin patty with a pickle old school fashion. Not running back, but it won't be 5-years.

    Bill's Drive-In
    120 Asbury Ave
    Evanston, IL 60202
    11AM - 7PM

    Back in the 70's I worked at Chute Middle School, down the block from Bill's. Loved their double and triple cheeseburgers back in the day. Tried one last summer and it's definitely not the tasty, greasy burger from their past. Not recommended.
    CSD
    Mark A Reitman, PhD
    Professor of Hot Dogs
    Hot Dog University/Vienna Beef
  • Post #670 - August 2nd, 2019, 2:06 pm
    Post #670 - August 2nd, 2019, 2:06 pm Post #670 - August 2nd, 2019, 2:06 pm
    chicagostyledog wrote:
    G Wiv wrote:Back in the 70's I worked at Chute Middle School, down the block from Bill's. Loved their double and triple cheeseburgers back in the day. Tried one last summer and it's definitely not the tasty, greasy burger from their past. Not recommended.
    CSD


    Maybe it’s a deep seated resentment because they serve low quality hot dogs.

    More likely because nothing seems as exiting as it did forty years ago.
  • Post #671 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:15 pm
    Post #671 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:15 pm Post #671 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:15 pm
    chicagostyledog wrote:Back in the 70's I worked at Chute Middle School, down the block from Bill's. Loved their double and triple cheeseburgers back in the day. Tried one last summer and it's definitely not the tasty, greasy burger from their past. Not recommended
    Can't disagree with your mammaries, but the single Bill's burger I had a few weeks ago hit all the high notes. Maybe it was they just opened for the day, I smiled and chatted with the grill woman, it seemed she took extra care with the burger. Possibly I was hungry, but it was a tasty burger and not like what I remembered from recent past.
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #672 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:34 pm
    Post #672 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:34 pm Post #672 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:34 pm
    G Wiv wrote:
    chicagostyledog wrote:Back in the 70's I worked at Chute Middle School, down the block from Bill's. Loved their double and triple cheeseburgers back in the day. Tried one last summer and it's definitely not the tasty, greasy burger from their past. Not recommended
    Can't disagree with your mammaries, but the single Bill's burger I had a few weeks ago hit all the high notes. Maybe it was they just opened for the day, I smiled and chatted with the grill woman, it seemed she took extra care with the burger. Possibly I was hungry, but it was a tasty burger and not like what I remembered from recent past.

    I have noticed several here try to either suck up to the staff or wear their foodie badge on their sleeve to try to get better food. I actively take those reviews with a grain of salt.

    I think this skews their perception of the food over what might be served normally.

    I will be polite, even amicable (I do have a way with waitstaff) but try to get the average product to accurately review. I never take photos until the food is served.
    Last edited by Panther in the Den on August 2nd, 2019, 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    "Very good... but not my favorite." ~ Johnny Depp as Roux the Gypsy in Chocolat
  • Post #673 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:35 pm
    Post #673 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:35 pm Post #673 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:35 pm
    ronnie_suburban wrote:Rhodes Burger w/Gyros and American Cheese, Maria Fries
    That picture elicited a Pavlov's puppies response from me. Great looking burger!
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #674 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:38 pm
    Post #674 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:38 pm Post #674 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:38 pm
    Panther in the Den wrote:I have noticed several here try to either suck up to the staff or wear their foodie badge on their sleeve to try to get better food. I actively take those reviews with a grain of salt.

    A) F. U.
    B) I'm a friendly mother fucker, not a suck-up
    C) If you wouldn't have schmoozed with the pretty young woman then you are either dead, older than I thought, impotent, an asshole or all four.
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #675 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:46 pm
    Post #675 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:46 pm Post #675 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:46 pm
    G Wiv wrote:
    Panther in the Den wrote:I have noticed several here try to either suck up to the staff or wear their foodie badge on their sleeve to try to get better food. I actively take those reviews with a grain of salt.

    A) F. U.
    B) I'm a friendly mother fucker, not a suck-up
    C) If you wouldn't have schmoozed with the pretty young woman then you are either dead, older than I thought, impotent, an asshole or all four.


    Could be worse. I was blamed for putting small restaurants out of business. So I got you beat! :)
  • Post #676 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:57 pm
    Post #676 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:57 pm Post #676 - August 2nd, 2019, 3:57 pm
    G Wiv wrote:... she took extra care with the burger.

    How can you say you received an average product? Especially when others don’t have the same experience?

    I also experienced this at Honey One. Several were raving about it but when I stopped by the few times it was notably average at best. Maybe I got older food from the day before instead of fresh off the smoker like you would?

    I understand you want the best value for your money but I do question the reviews.
    "Very good... but not my favorite." ~ Johnny Depp as Roux the Gypsy in Chocolat
  • Post #677 - August 2nd, 2019, 4:02 pm
    Post #677 - August 2nd, 2019, 4:02 pm Post #677 - August 2nd, 2019, 4:02 pm
    Panther in the Den wrote:I understand you want the best value for your money but I do question the reviews.
    Even though we have met in person you have zero understanding of what makes me tick and, seemingly, human interaction.

    Its a fucking 3-oz burger on a flat-top, what do you think she did to enhance the flavor, laden it with truffle and cultured butter from France?
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #678 - August 2nd, 2019, 4:41 pm
    Post #678 - August 2nd, 2019, 4:41 pm Post #678 - August 2nd, 2019, 4:41 pm
    You know, once Taco Bell wins the franchise wars we won't have these arguments over which restaurant sucked and which was good. Just cherish it while you can.


    ronnie_suburban wrote:I loves me some pizza puffs and when they're cooked properly and eaten right away, they can easily surpass the burgers at the more middling burger places as the best thing on the menu.

    NOT in that middling category is the Rhodes Burger I had last night at Cross~Rhodes in Evanston. Delicious . . .

    Image
    Rhodes Burger w/Gyros and American Cheese, Maria Fries

    =R=

    Cross-Rhodes
    913 Chicago Ave
    Evanston, IL 60202
    (847) 475-4475


    Another place for me to try. Love a nice fresh gyros and the greek fries sound heavenly. I've done the gyro topped burgers and while good I think I prefer them separate.
    Reading up on the place it's sad to see that the original owner died in an accident at the place several years ago, he seemed like the kind of person you'd want running your favorite restaurant. Really cared about the food and had a deep knowledge of cooking in general.
  • Post #679 - August 2nd, 2019, 5:09 pm
    Post #679 - August 2nd, 2019, 5:09 pm Post #679 - August 2nd, 2019, 5:09 pm
    Uther wrote:You know, once Taco Bell wins the franchise wars we won't have these arguments over which restaurant sucked and which was good. Just cherish it while you can.


    ronnie_suburban wrote:I loves me some pizza puffs and when they're cooked properly and eaten right away, they can easily surpass the burgers at the more middling burger places as the best thing on the menu.

    NOT in that middling category is the Rhodes Burger I had last night at Cross~Rhodes in Evanston. Delicious . . .

    Image
    Rhodes Burger w/Gyros and American Cheese, Maria Fries

    =R=

    Cross-Rhodes
    913 Chicago Ave
    Evanston, IL 60202
    (847) 475-4475


    Another place for me to try. Love a nice fresh gyros and the greek fries sound heavenly. I've done the gyro topped burgers and while good I think I prefer them separate.
    Reading up on the place it's sad to see that the original owner died in an accident at the place several years ago, he seemed like the kind of person you'd want running your favorite restaurant. Really cared about the food and had a deep knowledge of cooking in general.

    I normally don't prefer any meat toppings on my burger, not even bacon but this combination evokes a fond food memory from a place I used to frequent - and love - in my youth (the Niki Special at Wilmette Chuck Wagon), so I decided to go for it. Great stuff that was greater than the sum of its parts.

    =R=
    There are many things that are legal that are not a great idea --Nick Shabazz

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #680 - August 2nd, 2019, 5:19 pm
    Post #680 - August 2nd, 2019, 5:19 pm Post #680 - August 2nd, 2019, 5:19 pm
    ronnie_suburban wrote:I normally don't prefer any meat toppings on my burger, not even bacon but this combination evokes a fond food memory from a place I used to frequent - and love - in my youth (the Niki Special at Wilmette Chuck Wagon), so I decided to go for it. Great stuff that was greater than the sum of its parts.

    =R=

    I had a sandwich with meat on the burger at a former Chicago chain in Toledo about a week ago...

    Mr. Hero
    525 E Manhattan Blvd, Toledo, OH

    D2CE0744-078C-4553-A66D-554B42649AAE.jpeg Romanburger

    Then you must have had a Romanburger®! A unique combination of burgers covered with Swiss American cheese, grilled Genoa salami and Italian luncheon meats that are carmelized to a yummy perfection – nothing is better! Add our signature mayo and house dressing and you're on cloud nine, and of course, let's not forget those veggies that bring it all home.

    A cross between a sub and a burger.

    Always used to be a favorite when I was introduced to it while working in Naperville and at the end the last outpost was on the far southside of Chicago.
    "Very good... but not my favorite." ~ Johnny Depp as Roux the Gypsy in Chocolat
  • Post #681 - August 2nd, 2019, 5:57 pm
    Post #681 - August 2nd, 2019, 5:57 pm Post #681 - August 2nd, 2019, 5:57 pm
    G Wiv wrote: F. U.


    I figure the F must stand for food, but I can’t for the life of me figure out the U.
  • Post #682 - August 2nd, 2019, 6:44 pm
    Post #682 - August 2nd, 2019, 6:44 pm Post #682 - August 2nd, 2019, 6:44 pm
    It should really be F.Y., for Food! Yo! Which is how I greet the employees every time I enter a restaurant, while pointing at my open mouth in case they didn't get the hint.

    Panther, that picture reminds of the signature burgers at Little Island in Evanston on Ridge Rd, it's a big thick handmade patty formed in a rectangle and the bun is a Turano's french roll. They have a BBQ bacon one with fried onion strings that is one of the most enjoyable meals I've had, along with their hand cut fries.

    Haha, Ronnie, I actually had the Niki special at the Wilmette Chuck Wagon, years ago. It was good, but that factory produced gyro meat is so heavily spiced and distinctive in flavor that I think I prefer it in a pita with all the fixings instead of on a cheeseburger. Just my opinion.
  • Post #683 - August 2nd, 2019, 7:00 pm
    Post #683 - August 2nd, 2019, 7:00 pm Post #683 - August 2nd, 2019, 7:00 pm
    Uther wrote:Haha, Ronnie, I actually had the Niki special at the Wilmette Chuck Wagon, years ago. It was good, but that factory produced gyro meat is so heavily spiced and distinctive in flavor that I think I prefer it in a pita with all the fixings instead of on a cheeseburger. Just my opinion.

    I mona have to respectfully disagree with you on this. It's the commercially produced gyros that makes it work for me. Anything better would be a waste, imo. After eating great, house-made gyros at GNRs Avli and Psistaria, I wouldn't even consider ordering it straight up at Cross Rhodes but it works perfectly as a secondary component on a burger.

    =R=
    There are many things that are legal that are not a great idea --Nick Shabazz

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #684 - August 2nd, 2019, 7:12 pm
    Post #684 - August 2nd, 2019, 7:12 pm Post #684 - August 2nd, 2019, 7:12 pm
    Ah I see, it's almost like having a hot dog or polish on a burger, since commercial gyro meat is made almost like a sausage.
    I get the idea that people want more meat on their burger, but for me I'd just prefer bacon or another burger patty. The whole 'Ditka or Bears special' idea of a polish cut open and put on top of a burger, I've eaten those and enjoyed it but ultimately I think I prefer my burgers tasting of beef only, or at least the meat part of it.
    But getting two meats in one item, I guess you have the benefit of eating 2 different items (gyro and burger) but for half the bread consumption.
  • Post #685 - August 2nd, 2019, 7:14 pm
    Post #685 - August 2nd, 2019, 7:14 pm Post #685 - August 2nd, 2019, 7:14 pm
    Uther wrote:You know, once Taco Bell wins the franchise wars we won't have these arguments over which restaurant sucked and which was good. Just cherish it while you can.

    Ha ha ha ha ha!
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #686 - August 2nd, 2019, 10:46 pm
    Post #686 - August 2nd, 2019, 10:46 pm Post #686 - August 2nd, 2019, 10:46 pm
    scottsol wrote:
    chicagostyledog wrote:
    G Wiv wrote:Back in the 70's I worked at Chute Middle School, down the block from Bill's. Loved their double and triple cheeseburgers back in the day. Tried one last summer and it's definitely not the tasty, greasy burger from their past. Not recommended.
    CSD


    Maybe it’s a deep seated resentment because they serve low quality hot dogs.

    More likely because nothing seems as exiting as it did forty years ago.


    No resentment here. I never went to Bill's for a hot dog. It was always for cheeseburgers. For my dog fix, back in the day, it was the Ranch on Devon, Superdawg, Paul's Umbrella, Mutt & Jeff's, and Fat Boy's. This was long before Poochie's, Herm's, or Big Herm's. As a teen, I worked part time at Henry's Hamburgers in Lincolnwood from 1961-1965, 58 years ago, flipping fresh burgers on a flattop griddle and cooking fresh cut fries in lard.

    CSD
    Mark A Reitman, PhD
    Professor of Hot Dogs
    Hot Dog University/Vienna Beef
  • Post #687 - August 2nd, 2019, 11:36 pm
    Post #687 - August 2nd, 2019, 11:36 pm Post #687 - August 2nd, 2019, 11:36 pm
    Panther in the Den wrote:I will be polite, even amicable (I do have a way with waitstaff) but try to get the average product to accurately review. I never take photos until the food is served.

    *Golf Clap*

    This is some serious bushwaha and represents a completely unrealistic, myopic perspective. Have you never posted about a restaurant to which you've been more than once? Of course you have. So, you're either the most unrecognizable person in the world or you're extremely naive about restaurant employees' abilities to remember repeat customers. And given that you are among the very few in this forum whose avatar is an image of himself, you're more likely to be recognized than just about anyone else here. That's a truly strange choice for someone who claims that he tries not to be recognized. I'm sorry but I'm calling bullshit. Serious bullshit.

    Beyond that, though, just because one takes pictures in a restaurant with a cell phone, what exactly does that mean? Too many people do it for it to be an indicator of anything meaningful. As we all know, there are plenty of awfully unappetizing pictures of food all over the internet -- some posted in this very forum. Does taking and posting crappy pictures lead to special favors? Unlikely. The bottom line is that no one (other than someone who lives under a rock) gives a flying fuck if some dude takes a pic of his food in a restaurant, or takes some other pic before the food arrives. Maybe that meant something in 2007. In 2019, it definitely does not.

    =R=
    There are many things that are legal that are not a great idea --Nick Shabazz

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #688 - August 3rd, 2019, 3:48 am
    Post #688 - August 3rd, 2019, 3:48 am Post #688 - August 3rd, 2019, 3:48 am
    Usually, a side-tracked thread becomes boring because it is overwhelmed with minutiae. In rare cases, such as this one, tempers flare and personal feelings are revealed. How refreshing!

    In the spirit of comity, let us remember what we were taught as youngsters: “If you can’t say something nice about someone, sit here next to me!”
  • Post #689 - August 3rd, 2019, 6:12 am
    Post #689 - August 3rd, 2019, 6:12 am Post #689 - August 3rd, 2019, 6:12 am
    G Wiv wrote:
    Uther wrote:cheap frozen tamales you buy at the grocery store

    Hot dog stand tamales are like pizza puffs. Either you "get it" or don't. Personally, I dislike pizza puffs, though I've only had one or two bites of one just recently, and am ambivalent on the other.

    Tamales at beef/hot dog joints


    I grew up eating Chicago style extruder tamales, love em. Also grew up eating Iltaco brand pizza puffs, love em. I'd also lump Whitey's in the acquired taste/nostalgia category. Love em.

    Taco Bell, now thats where I draw my dog food line.

    Ronnie's gyros burg reminds me of a top selling item at my local bullet-proof glass-enclosed grease peddler, Super Sub. Double down dog food for the win (the Cross Rhodes patty looks to be a much higher quality tho.)

    Speaking of pizza puffs and burgers. Anyone ever try the "puff daddy" at Kimski– a Luther-ish stack of a burger with pizza puffs as buns. And Edzo is slinging a cheeseburger puff at Lolla this weekend, which sounds like something I might enjoy (despite the fact I retired from Lotsapoorloozers in '95)

    Super Sub
    1050 N Ashland Ave, Chicago, IL 60622

    Kimski
    954-960 W 31st St, Chicago, IL 60608

    Lollapalooza
    337 E Randolph St, Chicago, IL 60601
  • Post #690 - August 3rd, 2019, 6:35 am
    Post #690 - August 3rd, 2019, 6:35 am Post #690 - August 3rd, 2019, 6:35 am
    jimd wrote:Usually, a side-tracked thread becomes boring because it is overwhelmed with minutiae. In rare cases, such as this one, tempers flare and personal feelings are revealed. How refreshing!

    In the spirit of comity, let us remember what we were taught as youngsters: “If you can’t say something nice about someone, sit here next to me!”


    Haha yeah it's been entertaining. But for real, you can't just throw passive aggressive insults at people and just expect them to take it in stride. Glad people spoke up

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