WhyBeeSea wrote: But for real, you can't just throw passive aggressive insults at people and just expect them to take it in stride. Glad people spoke up

Passive?

Fwiw, I thought the idea of charming staff for preferable treatment being a faux pas or unethical was facetious. Unless people are getting paid for their objectivity on here and I just don't know it, it seems like people should use every trick in the book to get the best possible treatment they can get. Seriously, why the hell would they not?

bweiny wrote:Fwiw, I thought the idea of charming staff for preferable treatment being a faux pas or unethical was facetious. Unless people are getting paid for their objectivity on here and I just don't know it, it seems like people should use every trick in the book to get the best possible treatment they can get. Seriously, why the hell would they not?

The concern, realistic or not, is that it could make reviews less useful, particularly for establishments where consistency may be an issue. For example, why is that X always gets tender, juicy ribs at RiboRama while mine are usually dry.

scottsol wrote:The concern, realistic or not, is that it could make reviews less useful, particularly for establishments where consistency may be an issue. For example, why is that X always gets tender, juicy ribs at RiboRama while mine are usually dry.

But the loyalty is to oneself. The question the people getting dry ribs should be asking is "why didn't I kiss the waitstaff's ass much as possible?". Each schmoozer for himself out there.

scottsol wrote:

WhyBeeSea wrote: But for real, you can't just throw passive aggressive insults at people and just expect them to take it in stride. Glad people spoke up

Passive?

Touche

bweiny wrote:The question the people getting dry ribs should be asking is "why didn't I kiss the waitstaff's ass much as possible?"

Genuine interest, knowledge and a friendly demeanor is not the same as kissing ass.

G Wiv wrote:

bweiny wrote:The question the people getting dry ribs should be asking is "why didn't I kiss the waitstaff's ass much as possible?"

Genuine interest, knowledge and a friendly demeanor is not the same as kissing ass.

I use kissing ass as shorthand for doing whatever it is each customer feels comfortable with to make their experience more enjoyable. Trying to constrain one's own personality for a sense of fair play is crazy. No matter how hard someone tries, they can't turn dining out into a controlled double-blinded study.

bweiny wrote:I use kissing ass as shorthand

Kissing ass implies disingenuous. Like telling the boss how nice the paisley tie goes with his lavender golf shirt or yes, 6-inch spike heels are prefect for an afternoon meeting at IBM headquarters. Bullshiting to get something or get ahead. See also sycophant, obsequious etc.

Genuine interest, knowledge and a friendly demeanor is, well, genuine.

scottsol wrote:The concern, realistic or not, is that it could make reviews less useful, particularly for establishments where consistency may be an issue. For example, why is that X always gets tender, juicy ribs at RiboRama while mine are usually dry.

How does it make it less useful to know that if you are nice to a cook, they're going to put more care into your food or if you're nice to a server, you're going to get better service, or if you are a regular at a place, you just might get both. How is that any different from the simple fact that people have very different tastes and one person's tender and juicy is another person's dry?

Seems to me the best case for a forum like this is for as many people to post as possible on their personal experience at each restaurant so the rest of us can get a more comprehensive view of a given place.


All that said, this thread is about burgers, so I'm going to go ahead and report on the burger I had recently at Roister. The A-5 Wagyu Burger might seem like a superfluous use of high quality beef but I'll be damned if this wasn't one of the best burgers in town. Topped with "secret sauce," aged cheddar, pickles and lettuce, this quasi-Big Mac clone is as rich as it is delicious. Was happy to split it (along with a couple other non burger items.


The burger is on the brunch menu for everyone and the dinner menu for outside diners only.

I doubt the average person behind the counter is going to recognize Panther. From his picture I don't think he's that unique looking either, I see guys that sort of look like him every day (beards are very popular nowadays). IMO and meaning no disrespect of course.
Does schmoozing really help with a better quality of meal? I guess it couldn't hurt but isn't the person taking the order different than the one making the food, usually? Also, unless the customer is a friend or family member of an employee, I'm having a hard time imagining that the employees are going to take extra special care of their food, but then with other customers they're like 'whatever'.
I would think most restaurant workers would want to serve a good meal to everyone just to avoid potential complaints i.e. make the customer satisfied. Make it right so you don't have to make it twice, right?
Most of the time I've had substandard food at a place I blame it on the cook, some people care more than others, some are more competent and better at multi-tasking than others. Experience counts a lot too.

Lol, Jefe, yeah that Taco Bell ground beef has an unnatural smoothness to it, but dang if I don't love the taste of it when it's fresh and hot. It's been ages since I had a pizza puff, maybe I'll try one again sometime. Pizza is probably my favorite food, but every time I had a pizza puff it just tasted like a greasier version of a Hot Pocket to me. Just a cheap, poor substitute for real pizza, ok for when you don't have time for the real thing but nothing more than that.

Uther wrote:I doubt the average person behind the counter is going to recognize Panther. From his picture I don't think he's that unique looking either, I see guys that sort of look like him every day (beards are very popular nowadays).

Maybe, maybe not. But if you're going to zealously preach the virtues of anonymity (essentially calling others out for not practicing it), displaying your picture right next to every single one of your posts is a completely self-defeating approach.

=R=

Let's say whenever G Wiv goes to Honey 1 they make sure he gets the freshest product they have because he is not only well known to Adams & Co but is a recognized influencer. This means his experiences may not be representative of what others are likely to experience. Should he therefore take pains to make sure he doesn't get the best? No, because he is not a professional reviewer and is under no compunction to devalue his enjoyment for our sakes.

Ultimately, a reviewer's usefulness depends on the reader having compared their experiences with the reviewer's so they can have a good idea of the reviews' value.

I admit I'm contributing to the current drift off the "Burgers, Burgers" topic, but...

MarlaCollins'Husband wrote: How does it make it less useful to know that if you are nice to a cook, they're going to put more care into your food or if you're nice to a server, you're going to get better service, or if you are a regular at a place, you just might get both.

I agree completely and especially with the part about making the effort to be a regular.

scottsol wrote:Let's say ... they make sure he gets the freshest product they have because he is not only well known ... but is a recognized influencer. This means his experiences may not be representative of what others are likely to experience.... Ultimately, a reviewer's usefulness depends on the reader having compared their experiences with the reviewer's so they can have a good idea of the reviews' value.

Agree completely with this too.

Let's be honest and not pretend it isn't true that a few posters here are well known to the Chicago food media, get interviewed on the radio, get quoted in the press, are visibly recognizable by Chicago food reporters and restaurateurs, and get invited to soft openings and special events about which they post reviews that are almost unfailingly positive, and maybe deservedly so.

It's up to those people, I figure, to strive to maintain their objectivity and to check themselves occasionally as to whether (re first quote above) their "experiences may not be representative of what others are likely to experience." And it's up to the rest, I figure, to decide how much weight to give to such reviews.

I don't think those in the first group contribute to the positive spirit of this community by using foul language toward those in the second group, but that's just me.

Katie wrote:I don't think those in the first group contribute to the positive spirit of this community by using foul language toward those in the second group, but that's just me.

yep when you publicly call into question another person's integrity, you can expect some honest, unfiltered blowback. it's a pretty serious accusation. what cracks me up is the accuser's contention that anyone else's posts should be taken with a grain of salt. i mean, with his palate...come on!

That Roister burger looks great. Now that Brochu has left, who's running the kitchen there?

=R=

Clarence Beeks wrote:i mean, with his palate...come on!

One point deduction for hitting below the belt.

When I have had the good fortune to find myself at a restaurant with Gwiv, I've found that he has gone out of his way to maintain a low profile. On several occasions, he has worn a very clever disguise so as not to be recognized.

I f I ever find myself in a place where I feel that the front of house or kitchen is going out of their way to provide exceptional food or service, I ask them to please take it down a notch or two as I am only interested in the average experience. I steer clear of places where the service or food is always exceptional. I'm glad to see others feel this way. I know Steve Plotnicki certainly agrees here.

I put very little trust in anything posted by Ronnie Suburban. He's one of those guys that always takes great food pictures. Additionally, it seems like he's getting something comped in almost every place he goes.

I think with yelp and google reviews, everyone is potentially a food critic nowadays. That's the stressful thing with the restaurant business, you can do something perfect 9.5/10 times, but that 1 time out of 20 that something is slightly off you'll get some yelp terrorist screaming online on how you dishonored and spit upon them.

Besides, maybe Gwiv is just having a bad day, we're all human. And I don't know if you guys are on different 'internets', but the internet I know is full of mean comments. This, this is nothing...

MarlaCollins'Husband wrote:

scottsol wrote:

roister burger.jpg

All that said, this thread is about burgers, so I'm going to go ahead and report on the burger I had recently at Roister. The A-5 Wagyu Burger might seem like a superfluous use of high quality beef but I'll be damned if this wasn't one of the best burgers in town. Topped with "secret sauce," aged cheddar, pickles and lettuce, this quasi-Big Mac clone is as rich as it is delicious. Was happy to split it (along with a couple other non burger items.

roister inside.jpg

The burger is on the brunch menu for everyone and the dinner menu for outside diners only.

That burger looks great! A bit sloppy on the bottom bun, and the top bun gives the impression of too much bread to meat ratio, but I'm sure everything was fine.
This burger looks to be around $25; a few years ago wasn't it $50? But back then it was actually a slice of A5 on a bun, this looks like actual ground A5. Wonder if they mixed it with regular beef so as to make it cheaper?

Uther wrote:Wonder if they mixed it with regular beef so as to make it cheaper?

The old wagyu burger at Roister appears to have had substantially more beef than the one I had. Those curious can look at the video at the 42-second mark found here. The beef extends well beyond the bun in that one. Charging less money for less meat seems like a perfectly reasonable and logical explanation for the price drop, and a much more appropriate guess than baseless speculation of, effectively, a bait and switch by Roister.

deesher wrote:I know Steve Plotnicki certainly agrees here.

Deesher invokes Steve Pl*tnicki FTW!

Also, re Deesher and Ronnie, just the other day I saw a chef slip R_S three crumpets and a plate of spotted dick. Plus, I agree R_S takes beautiful pictures, what's up with that?

Uther wrote:Besides, maybe Gwiv is just having a bad day, we're all human.

Not having a bad day and, frankly, I'm not comfortable with you ascribing motivation for my response.

Uther wrote:that picture reminds of the signature burgers at Little Island in Evanston on Ridge Rd

Little Island is at the intersection of North Crawford Avenue, Central Street, and Gross Point Road. It is only several blocks north of there, as you cross into Wilmette, that Gross Point Road becomes Ridge Road.

jimd wrote:Usually, a side-tracked thread becomes boring because it is overwhelmed with minutiae.

Guilty as charged!

Panther in the Den wrote:
I also experienced this at Honey One. Several were raving about it but when I stopped by the few times it was notably average at best. Maybe I got older food from the day before instead of fresh off the smoker like you would?

You are not alone. Over the course of the fifteen years that I have been a member of this forum, I have also experienced this same phenomenon. I have patronized forum “darlings” and I have walked away wondering what the hell people were thinking, or, how could their experience be 180 degrees opposite mine when they wrote their glowing reviews...

cito wrote:Over the course of the fifteen years that I have been a member of this forum, I have also experienced this same phenomenon. I have patronized forum “darlings” and I have walked away wondering what the hell people were thinking, or, how could their experience be 180 degrees opposite mine when they wrote their glowing reviews...

Well, in all fairness, I'm not sure how prevalent this phenomenon of special treatment for FOTH is. The reason I say that is, I've compared notes with many friends (most of whom are not LTHers), and it's not at all unusual for me to like a place they don't, and vice versa. Furthermore, there are many restaurants where I've been more than once, and some of the time they are great, and other times they are disappointing. I think there are many, many variables that can affect how a restaurant is perceived - it can be an off night for the kitchen (different staff? tired chefs?), maybe one time I choose dishes they do well and/or that I really love while another time I don't, etc. Plus there is the always-present variable of differences in taste/preference between different individual diners. There are just too many possible causes of differences in opinion to conclusively blame just one specific reason. $.02

cito wrote:

Panther in the Den wrote:
I also experienced this at Honey One. Several were raving about it but when I stopped by the few times it was notably average at best. Maybe I got older food from the day before instead of fresh off the smoker like you would?

You are not alone. Over the course of the fifteen years that I have been a member of this forum, I have also experienced this same phenomenon. I have patronized forum “darlings” and I have walked away wondering what the hell people were thinking, or, how could their experience be 180 degrees opposite mine when they wrote their glowing reviews...

Isn't this just the nature of the beast? Places are innately inconsistent, we're not all going to love the same things, etc. For example, there's a healthy handful of GNRs that I don't care for.

As I've been posting (and practicing) for the past 17+ years, the best approach when seeking worthy recommendations is to identify those posters with whom your opinions most frequently line up and follow the paths they illuminate. Even then, you're not going to bat 1.000 but your chances of success are pretty good.

=R=

As I seem to have started a bit of thread drift with my Bill's Drive-In post I went back today for another couple of burgers. Bill's was busy Sunday 12:30, no chatting, ordered two single cheeseburgers mustard, onion, pickles, sport peppers and a Sprite Zero.

Damn tasty, once again reminding me of what McD's aspires to be.






Bill's Drive-In
120 Asbury Ave
Evanston, IL 60202
11AM - 7PM

G Wiv wrote:Bill's was busy Sunday 12:30, no chatting

J’Accuse. You made eye contact and looked like yourself

As an aside, I suggest that all reviews include the day and time of the meal. Honey 1, for example, was just about guaranteed to have dry ribs at certain times on certain days when they were on Western.

MarlaCollins'Husband wrote:

Uther wrote:Wonder if they mixed it with regular beef so as to make it cheaper?

The old wagyu burger at Roister appears to have had substantially more beef than the one I had. Those curious can look at the video at the 42-second mark found here. The beef extends well beyond the bun in that one. Charging less money for less meat seems like a perfectly reasonable and logical explanation for the price drop, and a much more appropriate guess than baseless speculation of, effectively, a bait and switch by Roister.

G Wiv wrote:

deesher wrote:I know Steve Plotnicki certainly agrees here.

Deesher invokes Steve Pl*tnicki FTW!

Also, re Deesher and Ronnie, just the other day I saw a chef slip R_S three crumpets and a plate of spotted dick. Plus, I agree R_S takes beautiful pictures, what's up with that?

Uther wrote:Besides, maybe Gwiv is just having a bad day, we're all human.

Not having a bad day and, frankly, I'm not comfortable with you ascribing motivation for my response.

The amount of salt in this thread is making me thirsty. Or maybe it's these pretzels.

I wasn't trying to imply dishonesty by Roister. I'm not sure what the standards or laws are but I was assuming if it was a blend you could still call it wagyu, like how you can call fruits/vegetables organic even if most of the process used in growing it is far from organic.
I've heard of a place that uses A5 for brisket, but after trimming there's a lot of loss. I'm not sure you could make a burger patty out of trimmings that are 90% fat, even if it is wagyu, so grinding that up with something really lean like sirloin could make a nice burger.

Bill's drive in burgers look like the burger version of the Depression dog; mustard, onions, sport peppers. Except with pickles, which I don't think comes with a minimalist dog?
The meat to bun ratio looks a little low IMO, I know they sell triples and quads so might have to go for that if and when I get there.

I'm old enough to remember when there were almost no Mexican restaurants around the area. Heck, when I went to L.A. for the first time in 1968, that was the first time I saw a Taco Bell. But I grew up eating those extruded things they called tamales at the hot dog stands and shacks. The first time I tried a real tamale I hated it.

Those hot dog stand tamales have as much resemblance to real tamales as Domino's has to pizza.

midas wrote:I'm old enough to remember when there were almost no Mexican restaurants around the area. Heck, when I went to L.A. for the first time in 1968, that was the first time I saw a Taco Bell.

Even back then, there were plenty along 18th Street in Pilsen, and La Choza was making kamoosh.

nsxtasy wrote:

midas wrote:I'm old enough to remember when there were almost no Mexican restaurants around the area. Heck, when I went to L.A. for the first time in 1968, that was the first time I saw a Taco Bell.

Even back then, there were plenty along 18th Street in Pilsen, and La Choza was making kamoosh.

Ah, kamoosh *swoon*. A life-changing bite when I first had it as a yoot.

=R=