Really good fries don't need ketchup. It's a shame to put ketchup on a lot of fries -- Gene & Jude's, Wiener's Circle, WASC, Kuma's, Al's.

I only use ketchup on mediocre fries.

Jamie wrote:Really good fries don't need ketchup. It's a shame to put ketchup on a lot of fries -- Gene & Jude's, Wiener's Circle, WASC, Kuma's, Al's.

I only use ketchup on mediocre fries.

I have to agree. It especially irks me when they get the fries and just put the ketchup on em right away without tasting them first. I would tell the customers that they don't need ketchup.

Now, Dipping sauces are another story

Jamie wrote:Really good fries don't need ketchup. It's a shame to put ketchup on a lot of fries -- Gene & Jude's, Wiener's Circle, WASC, Kuma's, Al's.

I only use ketchup on mediocre fries.

I personally think G&J's fries are below average. Wrapped up in the paper like that, they end up limp and soggy. It's just not a style I appreciate.

I agree that really great fries don't need ketchup. They can, however, be enhanced by it.

=R=

if you like gene and judes which i do
try jimmys on grand and pulaski in the city
been going there since i was 6
still no cash registers
great dog and frys at a more than fair price

d4v3 wrote:Since G & J wraps the fries up with the hotdogs, trace amounts of hotdog infused water are transferred to the surface of the fries.

I always think of the fries as a condiment.

#1 When you go there expect a long line...and plan to wait it out...

#2 Eat the dogs and fries in the parking lot...much better when everything is still hot and crisp...

Gimmie 3 singles with mustard...relish...peppers...and a large grape drink...

Life rule: Once you are past 12 years old...no more ketchup!

Those of you who never cease to rail against catsup, despite the fact that it's almost invisible on most menus, and with just about everyone everywhere agreeing with you, should look inside yourselves and consider the basis for this groundless phobia. Why, oh why, must you continue to pile on pointlessly, to beat up this condiment, which is almost as universal as salt and pepper, found in so many of the sauces you relish, and beloved by billions in one form or another? There is no problem with catsup. Is there a problem with you? Pretty much has to be, don't you think?

Why, oh why? Simple, hotdogs with that red stuff on it, tastes like crap.

A hotdog joint not offering ketchup for french fries -- mainly because they are concerned that someone might sneakily apply some of it to their hotdog -- is akin to a certain Seinfeld episode. The self-importance is mind-boggling.

These places should just admit that they are (and have always been) too damned cheap and indifferent to stock it and drop the cock and bull stories about it being part of some higher philosophy.

=R=

Hear hear! Long live kethup!

David Hammond wrote:Those of you who never cease to rail against catsup, despite the fact that it's almost invisible on most menus, and with just about everyone everywhere agreeing with you, should look inside yourselves and consider the basis for this groundless phobia. Why, oh why, must you continue to pile on pointlessly, to beat up this condiment, which is almost as universal as salt and pepper, found in so many of the sauces you relish, and beloved by billions in one form or another? There is no problem with catsup. Is there a problem with you? Pretty much has to be, don't you think?

Whipped cream is a great addition to many a food substance. Add it to ice cream, put it on strawberries, even use it for a little late night diversion with your SO. Whipped cream is one of life's true joys. That doesn't mean you should be putting it on a pizza.

midas wrote:

David Hammond wrote:Those of you who never cease to rail against catsup, despite the fact that it's almost invisible on most menus, and with just about everyone everywhere agreeing with you, should look inside yourselves and consider the basis for this groundless phobia. Why, oh why, must you continue to pile on pointlessly, to beat up this condiment, which is almost as universal as salt and pepper, found in so many of the sauces you relish, and beloved by billions in one form or another? There is no problem with catsup. Is there a problem with you? Pretty much has to be, don't you think?

Whipped cream is a great addition to many a food substance. Add it to ice cream, put it on strawberries, even use it for a little late night diversion with your SO. Whipped cream is one of life's true joys. That doesn't mean you should be putting it on a pizza.

LOL . . . that is one of the weakest analogies I've ever read. I don't put ketchup on my hotdogs but asserting that doing so is equal to putting whipped cream on pizza is utterly absurd. Ketchup on hotdogs is a fairly common thing -- maybe not in Chicago, but in many other places. It's nothing at all like putting whipped cream on pizza.

If you don't like it, fine. But who cares how others eat their food? I dunno; I just can't go there.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote: It's nothing at all like putting whipped cream on pizza.
=R=

While I don't think that midas's analogy is fully correct either, I do agree that it is somewhat like putting whipped cream on pizza in that they are both sweets going on savory items. The reality is that most catsup is probably more sugary than a good fresh whipped cream. Now, I will, once in a while, dip a fry in catsup, (I think I did it a few years ago) just to remind myself of why I don't really like the overly salty, sugary "flavor" that it has, but it kinda gives me the willies when an adult uses it on a dawg, or polish, or brat, or italian snausage. And yes, I also think that neon green sugar relish is an abomination as well. What's the DEAL with dumping sugar laden condiments on a salty/garlicky hot dog?

Hmmm - all beef weiner, chopped onions, sport peppers, mustard, what's it missing?.....GOBS OF SUGAR!!!

- not for me. Dill relish is where it's at.

ChicagoTRS wrote:#1 When you go there expect a long line...and plan to wait it out...

#2 Eat the dogs and fries in the parking lot...much better when everything is still hot and crisp...

Gimmie 3 singles with mustard...relish...peppers...and a large grape drink...

Life rule: Once you are past 12 years old...no more ketchup!

I love it... the once you are past 12 line is great..

however I take it a step further, when I see an adult eating ketchup on a dog, or asking for ketchup, I jokingly ask them, "what are you 4?"

I tip my White Sox hat to any hot dog stand that refuses to offer ketchup based on principal, and not folding to pressure of the p.c. crowd. It is their business after all, and no one is forcing the ketchup on the hot dog lovers to eat there.

ronnie_suburban wrote:LOL . . . that is one of the weakest analogies I've ever read. I don't put ketchup on my hotdogs but asserting that doing so is equal to putting whipped cream on pizza is utterly absurd. Ketchup on hotdogs is a fairly common thing -- maybe not in Chicago, but in many other places. It's nothing at all like putting whipped cream on pizza.

If you don't like it, fine. But who cares how others eat their food? I dunno; I just can't go there.

The analogy is actually spot-on. Nobody is railing against ketchup, catsup or catchup (whatever you call a mixture of high fructose corn syrup, rendered tomatoes and food coloring). People are simply objecting to the act of putting catchup on hotdogs. Personally I like catsup on hash-browns and even meat loaf, but I don't think it belongs on sausages, burgers or sandwiches. If people were in the habit of eating ketchup on apple pie, I would complain about that too, but they don't, so there is no need to bring it up. I don't mean that people don't have a right to eat whatever they want, however they want. Lord knows that I, like Mr. Hammond, eat many things that make less adventurous eaters cringe in horror. I even discovered that I like filling fortune cookies with aerosol cheese, but that doesn't mean I have to keep my mouth shut when somebody (IMHO) ruins a perfectly good sausage by burying it in sweet sticky red stuff. It is, however, their right to do so, just as it is my right to object to it. Perhaps my aversion to the substance is because my Dad put it on just about everything (including fried eggs and lamb chops), much to mother's chagrin. Actually, the whole catsup on hotdog thing is just a point of civic pride. It is a way of placing ourselves above the heathen uneducated unwashed and huddled masses that dwell in the outlands. For Gene and Jude's, it is simply a marketing ploy. Nobody is being arrested or assaulted for putting ketchup on red hots, so just accept the good natured ribbing and go with the flow (and keep some of those ubiquitous little foil packets in your glove box).

I think I'm just going to leave this in the "agree to disagree" column and move on, as we're beginning to go in circles.

That said, my one prevailing thought is that what someone else chooses to do with their sausage, is none of my concern -- provided no one gets hurt.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:But who cares how others eat their food?

Dont we all? Otherwise why post on this website.

ronnie_suburban wrote:what someone else chooses to do with their sausage, is none of my concern -- provided no one gets hurt.

Right. As long as it's not someone else's sausage...

iblock9 wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:But who cares how others eat their food?

Dont we all? Otherwise why post on this website.

I don't post here to criticize how others eat, even though I do truly appreciate the diversity of opinions. YMMV.

=R=

If Gene & Judes, who appear to have been somewhat successful for some time, choose not to serve catsup so be it. If you don't like it don't go.I am confident they won't miss you. Besides their fries don't need catsup.

Marshall K wrote:If Gene & Judes, who appear to have been somewhat successful for some time, choose not to serve catsup so be it. If you don't like it don't go. I am confident they won't miss you. Besides their fries don't need catsup.

Yes, if you bother to read upthread, you'll see that I already posted as much, several days ago.

They probably won't miss me and I certainly don't miss them.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:A hotdog joint not offering ketchup for french fries -- mainly because they are concerned that someone might sneakily apply some of it to their hotdog -- is akin to a certain Seinfeld episode. The self-importance is mind-boggling.

These places should just admit that they are (and have always been) too damned cheap and indifferent to stock it and drop the cock and bull stories about it being part of some higher philosophy.

Oh, no. They "provide a unique and creative experience of demanding quality," just like a certain bar that doesn't serve cranberry juice.

I'm impressed that somebody at Gene & Jude's unbent far enough to suggest picking up some ketchup at McDonald's. Shades of "Miracle on 34th Street"!

d4v3 wrote:For Gene and Jude's, it is simply a marketing ploy.

Tradition, maybe...but I doubt anyone at Gene and Jude's (or Jimmy's, for that matter) has given the issue enough thought to come up with this as a marketing gimmick. It's just the way it is when offering Chicago dog's with traditional minimalist toppings. Call 'em kookie, call 'em stubborn, call 'em unfair, but don't call them marketing geniuses.

stevez wrote:Tradition, maybe...but I doubt anyone at Gene and Jude's (or Jimmy's, for that matter) has given the issue enough thought to come up with this as a marketing gimmick.

Of course it's a gimmick, and an effective one too. Look how much free publicity they have gotten here. Discussion of this "tradition" has kept them at the top of one of Chicago's premier food forums for a week.

On another note, was there ever a ketchup dispenser at G&J's (for the fries only, of course)? I seem to remember one being there 25+ years ago, but I might be confused. The brain cells that held the details of those memories are long gone (probably before I left the G&J parking lot).

d4v3 wrote:

stevez wrote:Tradition, maybe...but I doubt anyone at Gene and Jude's (or Jimmy's, for that matter) has given the issue enough thought to come up with this as a marketing gimmick.

Of course it's a gimmick, and an effective one too. Look how much free publicity they have gotten here. Discussion of this "tradition" has kept them at the top of one of Chicago's premier food forums for a week..

The anti-catsup folks (god bless 'em) many times seem to be just mouthing received wisdom that's repeated, ad infinitum, by just about every single article or new story about hot dogs. In a recent issue of TimeOut Chicago, there were several articles focusing on hot dogs, and in at least three separate pieces the speakers -- both experts and people on the street -- felt obligated to reiterate the tired axiom that catsup has no place on hot dogs. Copy that; understood; we got it already. You don't like catsup on hotdogs. So be it, now please, calm down, I'm trying to eat over here.

Incidentally, I'm not holding a banner for Heinz. My favorite variety happens to be MAG's homemade red pepper catsup, a deeply satisfying sauce, not-too-sweet with slight heat, easily as appropriate on a hot dog -- or a hamburger or French fries -- as French's mustard.

The whole argument that a good fry, or hambuger, or hot dog "doesn't need" catsup is specious. Condiments enhance and bring out new dimensions in food. A good farm fresh egg with canadian bacon doesn't need hollandaise, but the sauce certainly brings something to the table; an excellent steak from David Burke doesn't need blue cheese on top, but it's really good that way.

I think I said something like this on Chowhound once, which suggests how long the debate has been going on, but:

I put ketchup on my hot dog at the movie theater.

I would strongly urge against it at Gene & Jude's.

Simply put, the dog at the movies, and for that matter the dogs across much of America, have a milder, sweeter profile. Ketchup's umami-- its slight bite of worcestershire tartness and complexity-- all this enhances the flavor of such a dog, as it does hamburger, meatloaf and numerous other mild meats. Ketchup amd mustard together make an inspired combination in such cases.

A classic Chicago dog, though, has a garlicky, more aggressive spice profile. Ketchup will bury that in sugar; you might as well chocolate-frost the dog for all you're going to taste its original character. For that, the bite of mustard and onion and the slight sweetness of pickle relish are a perfect and harmonious combination which enhance, without burying, the dog's own flavor.

In short, there is no one answer, and ketchup is neither one nor the other.

IF

David Hammond wrote:...
The whole argument that a good fry, or hambuger, or hot dog "doesn't need" catsup is specious. Condiments enhance and bring out new dimensions in food. A good farm fresh egg with canadian bacon doesn't need hollandaise, but the sauce certainly brings something to the table; an excellent steak from David Burke doesn't need blue cheese on top, but it's really good that way.

AND

condiments = Ketchup, Hollandaise, Blue cheese

THEN

David Hammond wrote:...
The whole argument that a good fry, or hambuger, or hot dog "doesn't need" catsup is specious. Condiments enhance and bring out new dimensions in food. A good farm fresh egg with canadian bacon doesn't need KETCHUP, but the sauce certainly brings something to the table; an excellent steak from David Burke doesn't need KETCHUP on top, but it's really good that way.

Mike G wrote:I think I said something like this on Chowhound once, which suggests how long the debate has been going on

I hesitated to jump back into the fray on this. The Catsup Controversy on Chowhound (circa 2003) went on for many, many posts, and it was the only time in my professional life I missed a deadline: I was so involved battling the forces of blind prejudice and culinary fascism that I totally forgot I had a script due. But seeing once again the rising Dragon of Intolerance (and his sidekick, the Elf of Surrender to "Popular Wisdom") I had to draw my sword of Justice and Reason and do battle in defense of the tasty.

seebee wrote:IF

David Hammond wrote:...
The whole argument that a good fry, or hambuger, or hot dog "doesn't need" catsup is specious. Condiments enhance and bring out new dimensions in food. A good farm fresh egg with canadian bacon doesn't need hollandaise, but the sauce certainly brings something to the table; an excellent steak from David Burke doesn't need blue cheese on top, but it's really good that way.

AND

condiments = Ketchup, Hollandaise, Blue cheese

THEN

David Hammond wrote:...
The whole argument that a good fry, or hambuger, or hot dog "doesn't need" catsup is specious. Condiments enhance and bring out new dimensions in food. A good farm fresh egg with canadian bacon doesn't need KETCHUP, but the sauce certainly brings something to the table; an excellent steak from David Burke doesn't need KETCHUP on top, but it's really good that way.

Preposterious and illogical conclusion. Just because hollandaise is good on eggs with bacon does not mean it would be good on a hot dog...unless you like the way that tastes. Just because a condiment tastes good on one thing does not mean it will taste good on everything...but you already knew that.

Well, all my posts so far in this thread have been tongue - in - cheek. Seems the pro-ketchup bunch doth protest too much.

midas wrote:Well, all my posts so far in this thread have been tongue - in - cheek.

You are not alone.

midas wrote:Seems the pro-ketchup bunch doth protest too much.

Anti outnumbers pro by a significant margin.