stevez wrote:Adam,

Would you mind posting where you had a similar dish that was even better? I found the version at Double Li to be a revelation and the first dish I think of ordering when I go there. I'd love to visit somewhere that serves a superior version.

I think I had a similar dish at Bo Bo China in Champaign, and maybe also at one of the usual suspects in Chinatown. To be frank, I thought the Double Li version was good but not memorable. Maybe I was just there on an off night.

Let me ring the bell again for Ben Li - this gentleman knows how to cook, and how to entertain, with wonderful stories from China and Chinatown. On this very slow Superbowl eve, he joined our table in a down moment to check in on the food and what made us choose Double Li tonight, leading to a great conversation about linguistics (U of C was well represented), getting the best ingredients, and why the extremely hard, mineraly water in Beijing makes everything taste different from elsewhere in China and from here. (Two effects - first the minerals, which get into the cooking and make everything taste earthier, and second, the contrast one experiences in Beijing between the extremely cloudy and rich sauces, and the purified beers and maotai consumed with them, a kind of antiperistasis that brought to my mind a glass of cold water after a Petersen's or Oberweis sundae).

The food was remarkable - Shanghai Dumplings (like Chengdu dumplings, in a sweet oily broth) and Garlic Peppercorn Tenderloin from the gringo menu, and Twice-Cooked Duck and Szechuan Baby Octopus from the specials list. The duck was a generous mound of long, tender threads and shreds of scallion, duck, sprouts, and a pencil-thin root vegetable we couldn't identify (and forgot to ask about). The octopus was served bubbling and piping in a glazed clay pot, and featured an abundance of mushrooms, fresh and dried peppers, and tender tentacles. It was just as hot as the La La La dishes at LSC, with perhaps an even longer-lasting burn. Perfect food and fellowship while the snow started to fall.

A friend tells me that Double Li is soon to be featured on Steve Dolinsky's Hungry Hound. I'm not sure how much business such a mention drives but you have now been forewarned

=R=

Thanks for the warning, Ronnie! I was just telling Jimthebeerguy yesterday morning how much I would like to learn how to make the Garlic Pepper Tenderloin dish for ourselves. This is as good a reason as any to learn!

Saint Pizza wrote:Thanks for the warning, Ronnie! I was just telling Jimthebeerguy yesterday morning how much I would like to learn how to make the Garlic Pepper Tenderloin dish for ourselves. This is as good a reason as any to learn!

SP,

You re in luck, Mike Sula posted a Double Li Black Pepper Beef Tutorial on the Chicago Reader back in November. Unless Mr. Li left out a secret ingredient or two it should get you very close.

Enjoy,
Gary

Thanks for the link, Gary!! Flank steak, huh...I never would have guessed!

When he pulled the beef from the marinade....it looked white to me....was wondering if their was quite a bit of cornstarch in the marinade??

ronnie_suburban wrote:A friend tells me that Double Li is soon to be featured on Steve Dolinsky's Hungry Hound. I'm not sure how much business such a mention drives but you have now been forewarned

=R=

Don't know who has more appeal, Hungry Hound or Check Please, but we went went last week (a few times) to get in before the rush. They have already filmed the episode and is supposed to air this weekend (but we'll have to wait and see).

Anyway, the place has gotten a make over from the last time that we were there. More colors on the walls and the speakers are pumping out more "modern hip" music. The special's list that was on the wall has moved onto each table with english translation, but no description.

With camera in tow, this is what we had last Thursday for dinner.

LAMB HOT POT


BLACK GARLIC BEEF


PEAPOD LEAVES


BABY OCTOPUS, SCHEZUAN STYLE


CRAB IN PRESERVED EGG YOLK


The LAMB HOT POT, BLACK GARLIC BEEF, and the PEAPOD LEAVES are the same as before (no quality degradation here) and is well described up thread. Note: the dish that has been getting a lot hype, is called BLACK GARLIC BEEF. There is another dish on the menu (Chinese side) called BLACK PEPPER BEEF. Beware and oder properly.

Okay, so now for the new items. BABY OCTOPUS, SCHEZUAN STYLE and CRAB IN PRESERVED EGG YOLK. The first item can be found on the specials menu located at each table. When we placed the order, the waitress warned us that it is very numbing - we have been here many time before and we have never got a warning. Dish came as described by Santander upthread. The octopus was small and very tender, and was laced with so much Schezuan peppercorns, that it would be impossible to take a bite without chomping on a couple. Of course that tingly, numbing mouth feel that occurs when you bite into one of these goodness was ever present and will provide a unique mouthfeel. My partner (the smart Chinese) said not to eat them and take time to remove them from the octopus. I argued that if they did not want us to eat, then they should have removed it. But alas, I was wrong, when the owner came over, asked us how it was, and was surprised that I ate the peppercorns. "Oh no, you are not supposed to eat that," was his retort. Take a look at those peppercorns.


The CRAB IN PRESERVED EGG YOLK is not on any menu. We saw this dish came out on a weekend for a table of what I assume to be family or vip's. We were so enamored with what was brought out that we asked for the same. "Of course," was the response, but we had to wait, because they had to get the crab from the market. Dish came out and looked as it did with the other table and as pictured above, and tasted oh so heavenly. Now for some, the texture of the preserved egg yolk might not jive well, with a taste something like a refined hard boiled egg. Anyway, the crab is steamed, then quickly deep fried with a light coating of corn starch and preserved egg yolk. The stuffing is also made of preserved egg yolk and garnishes. On the menu, you can get this preparation, but with shrimp.

I was there last night, and there were only two other tables that had people. The two of us completely over ordered, but what the heck. Chinese people actually came over to our table to take a look. We had most of the stuff everyone here reccomended. I was surprised at how small the actual menu is, in regards to choices. The waitress couldn't even begin to take our order so Mr. Li had to come over. He still hasn't translated the Chinese menu. I guess we will have to get our blackberrys out and show pictures if Mr. Li isn't around. The things we wouldn't order again are the potstickers, skins were very tough, and the pork mixture filling just wasn't that great, and the boiled beef in hot oil, it was just a texture issue, plus the lamb hot pot was much better (more vegetables in the sauce including multiple varieties of mushrooms). Does anyone know the difference between the dumplings and the potstickers? Same filling? We asked about shrimp dumplings ( I thought someone mentioned them on here, and they don't make those). I really liked the pocket tofu, really a nice way to cool down the mouth after the chili chicken, and lamb.

I'm torn now between Double Li and LSC.

Glad you enjoyed it, Nic. Off the regular menus, the potstickers seem to be a very standard chewy-dough affair (I'm not a big fan of these at LSC either). The dumplings, however, come in little bowl of oily broth like the Chengdu dumplings at LSC, and are very good.

Even though there is no "handout" of the Chinese menu yet, Ben and his staff seem to have at least put one table tent out with the specials translated, about eight items on each side of the little laminated card. There was one at every table the other night, so you should be able to ask for one. My Chinese-reading friend said that much of the center column and right column (when you flip the menu over) is exactly the same as the English menu. But I do know we're still missing some key dishes even between the English and specials menu.

The Hungry Hound segment with Double Li aired on the 11 AM news today on WLS-TV. The segment includes the mapo tofu, the black pepper tenderloin, and more.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sectio ... id=5939564

So yeah, I'm planning on going to the Chinese New Year parade, but it's going to be cold (High 13 degrees) and this place will be packed now. Good luck getting a seat.

As mycoman (Leon) posted upthread, the McCawley is a lifesaver at Double Li and many other places with half-translated (or untranslated) menu sections. I just found a large section of it online; this may be useful to someone:

Let me plug the McCawley (Eater's Guide to Chinese Characters) one more time:

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/h ... 0/1599.ctl
http://www.amazon.com/Eaters-Guide-Chin ... 0226555925

Most of the good stuff is online here:

link

As I mentioned in the other thread, I am not remotely a Chinese speaker or reader without help, but I have the characters for Beijing (characters "north" and "capital"), Szechuan (characters "four" and "rivers"), Nanjing (characters "south" and "capital"), noodle, pork / pig (often written with the character that literally means 'meat'), duck, chicken / fowl, shrimp, scallion, dumpling, cubed, sliced, and bun memorized, and they're not hard to remember if you think pictorally. A few characters will take you a long way since they're used in both Mandarin and Cantonese restaurants.

After Louisa Chu's very interesting talk, a large group of people went to Double Li for lunch. This was a mixed group of a few LTHers and quite a few other people who routinely attend Cathy2's programs. The palates of the people eating were mixed as well, with a couple people in the crowd spice averse. Nevertheless, we managed to have a great meal that included many of the "standard" Double Li favorites. Here are a few more pictures to add another data point.

Szechuan Dumplings


Potstickers


Dry Chili Chicken


Pocket Tofu


Black Pepper Garlic Beef Tenderloin


Lamb Hot Pot


Shrimp in Preserved Egg


Home Style Rabbit


Spicy Squid


Shredded Duck Stir Fry


Greens


The meal was very good, with some big hits and a few misses...well not actually misses, but there were some dishes that while good, could be had prepared better elsewhere. Still, the tofu and the beef are standout dishes that will bring me back to Double Li time and time again.

Just an aside to photographers. I found the lighting at Double Li to be odd and very hard to compensate for. Shooting food at Double Li and having it look right is one of the bigger challenges out there (even using RAW images).

stevez wrote:Just an aside to photographers. I found the lighting at Double Li to be odd and very hard to compensate for. Shooting food at Double Li and having it look right is one of the bigger challenges out there (even using RAW images).

Thanks, Steve, for the report. There are a lot of dishes shown in your post that I've not tried and some of them look fantastic. I'm sorry I couldn't be there.

As for pics, I've found the lighting at Double Li to be similar to the lighting at La Unica -- drop ceiling, fluorscent panel -- which is very flat and can make for rough shooting conditions. My best results have come when I've shot in raw with a white card and then white balanced everything to the white card in post-production as a batch process. I also recommend shooting at as low an ISO as you possibly can to keep the 'noise' to a minimum. But ultimately it's a lot of work to create truly reprsentative images at Double Li without doing quite a bit of post-production. That said, your shots look pretty creamy.

=R=

Ronnie, is "white card" a setting on your camera, or do you actually bring a large white card with you to the restaurant?

Thanks for the photos Steve - and the photography lesson Ron you were missed too BTW. We sat at the very back of the restaurant too - I'd suggest a simple fix to anyone without the big guns - and Photoshop expertise - to just sit near the front windows at lunch if possible. They had beautiful light yesterday afternoon.

I've never fixed white balance in photoshop in post-production as Ronnie is describing, but my camera has a function where it adjusts the white balance (color correction, basically) by taking a test picture of a white card, so I do bring a white card (white cardstock clipped to a piece of cardboard) with me , as well as a tripod, whenever I think lighting conditions are going to be difficult. My camera is several years old - a Nikon coolpix e995 - I imagine that anything but the most basic cameras these days would have the same feature.

Saint Pizza wrote:Ronnie, is "white card" a setting on your camera, or do you actually bring a large white card with you to the restaurant?

No, it's not a setting. I tend to shoot in 'raw' mode.

This is a small card that's about the size of a credit card. It's actually called a mini gray scale card, which looks a lot like this. It has horizontal bands of white, gray and black. It just slips right in my camera bag. I lay it on the table, in some representative light, and shoot it sometime during the session/meal, preferably at the beginning.

Later, once I transfer the images back to my computer, I just use the standard viewing software that came with my camera and select all the images from that particular session. I then use the 'eyedropper' white balance function to select the band of white from the card and, it properly white balances all the selected images. It's a very useful and convenient device, especially because it's so small.

=R=

dfawley wrote:I've never fixed white balance in photoshop in post-production as Ronnie is describing, but my camera has a function where it adjusts the white balance (color correction, basically) by taking a test picture of a white card, so I do bring a white card (white cardstock clipped to a piece of cardboard) with me , as well as a tripod, whenever I think lighting conditions are going to be difficult. My camera is several years old - a Nikon coolpix e995 - I imagine that anything but the most basic cameras these days would have the same feature.

I do carry a small, collapsable tri-pod in my bag called a T'pod and it can be very useful. But my primary lenses have 'image stabilization' which generally speaking, allows for shooting quality shots in low light without a tri-pod (I have Canon, other brands call it something else). Ultimately, when you are in low light and need to keep that aperature open longer to get your shot, you're going to need something to compensate for it, whether it be IS, a tri-pod or both. And clearly, the older I get, the less steady I become

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:As for pics, I've found the lighting at Double Li to be similar to the lighting at La Unica -- drop ceiling, fluorscent panel -- which is very flat and can make for rough shooting conditions.

The issue there, as Louisa pointed out, was that we were sitting sort of in the back corner near the kitchen. That made for a mixture of tungsten, CFL, and fluorescent light, mixed with a smidgen of daylight making it back from the front windows. All of my normal color correction tricks only got the images to the cream color you see. I've never encountered lighting like that in a restaurant before.

stevez wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:As for pics, I've found the lighting at Double Li to be similar to the lighting at La Unica -- drop ceiling, fluorscent panel -- which is very flat and can make for rough shooting conditions.

The issue there, as Louisa pointed out, was that we were sitting sort of in the back corner near the kitchen. That made for a mixture of tungsten, CFL, and fluorescent light, mixed with a smidgen of daylight making it back from the front windows. All of my normal color correction tricks only got the images to the cream color you see. I've never encountered lighting like that in a restaurant before.

Gotcha. As I posted above, I think conditions are tough there even when the lighting is not mixed, as you describe it. I've shot there at night, under just the fluorescents and came out with some really flat imags. Next time, you'll just have to bring a full lighting kit

=R=

If you look at the upper right rim of the plate in this picture, you'll notice a yellow reflection. I didn't notice at the time, but I'll bet there is some sort of yellow neon sign or some other colored light along the wall. I'll bet that's what is throwing the lighting off. I guess I'll have to plan a trip back to Double Li for purely scientific purposes to check.

stevez wrote:

If you look at the upper right rim of the plate in this picture, you'll notice a yellow reflection. I didn't notice at the time, but I'll bet there is some sort of yellow neon sign or some other colored light along the wall. I'll bet that's what is throwing the lighting off. I guess I'll have to plan a trip back to Double Li for purely scientific purposes to check.

Who knew 'scientific purposes' could be so damned tasty?

=R=

stevez wrote:If you look at the upper right rim of the plate in this picture, you'll notice a yellow reflection. I didn't notice at the time, but I'll bet there is some sort of yellow neon sign or some other colored light along the wall. I'll bet that's what is throwing the lighting off.

Z,

Good call, the wall sconces at Double Li have a yellowish cast.

Saint Pizza, Slice of Pizza, PaulSL


Enjoy,
Gary

Hi,

I had not been to Double Li before. I thoroughly enjoyed the Black Pepper Garlic Beef Tenderloin and Shrimp with Preserved Egg Yolk. While I may not like the capsaicin heat, I do like peppery spice quite a bit. I had imagined the Shrimp with Preserved Egg Yolk would have a funkiness about it, which never did appear. I'm still not sure what it was really like, though I will just have to go back for more sometime.

The restaurant was very accomodating for a fairly large group. We had too many people for their largest round table. Instead they put two tables together with 3 people comfortably seated at each side, then brought in a lazy susan for the middle. It was really the perfect seating considering the circumstances.

Regards,

I stopped in for a late dinner this past Saturday and discovered that the entire menu has now been translated and re-printed. It's divided into the usual sections - Poultry, Pork, Seafood, etc. - with a list of Ben Li's Reccomendations towards the front. Unsurprisingly, this list of reccomendations includes such hits as Dry Chili Chicken, Garlic Black Peppercorn Beef, Shrimp in Preserved Egg Yolk, etc etc. I look forward to exploring more of what Ben has to offer.

m'th'su wrote:

Jay K wrote:Interesting discussion re: the origins of Li's presentation of Black Pepper Beef, as I'd always been under the impression it was a classic Cantonese dish from Hong Kong

With butter?

i'm totally late to the party but...
the beef deep/fried stir fried in butter with lots of garlic & black pepper and butter is extremely close to a typical preparation of Vietnamese bo luc lac

Ben Li continues to rock the north side of Cermak. New dishes for us tonight were bitter melon in UWS (aside: I had a nearly identical dish in Trinidad last March) and a special that had both pork belly and shredded duck stir-fried with leeks and celery. Old favorites were dry chili chicken (intensely crisp, though no sweetness), numbing octopus szechuan hot pot, garlic black pepper beef, and lamb with cumin. Tonight's lamb had a slight edge over LSC and Lao Beijing's preparations, but it's not always this succulent.

My favorite part of this restaurant is the utterly relaxed atmosphere. Even when busy, this place is quiet, well-run, comfortably low-lit, and competently staffed in my experience. Ben is omnipresent, helpful, and kind. Since he still can't sell alcohol, he occasionally offers a closing toast of wujianle gratis with the last lingering tables, one of the many reasons I like the late shift in Chinatown.

Just had a terrific lunch at the Double Li last weekend. They have finally put all their non-Americanized dishes, included pork blood and duck tongue, in a special section called "Chef's Recommendations". No more long and frustrating discussions with the waiters, or attempting to decipher the undoubtedly scrumptious Chinese dishes on the wall.

By the way, the double-cooked home-cured bacon, stir fried with pea pods, is listed on the menu (not under "Chef's choices") simply as "bacon" ($9.00--a bargain). An ethereal dish.

Jerry wrote:They have finally put all their non-Americanized dishes, included pork blood and duck tongue, in a special section called "Chef's Recommendations". No more long and frustrating discussions with the waiters, or attempting to decipher the undoubtedly scrumptious Chinese dishes on the wall.

Assuming they will let you order them, and that what you order is what you get.

Chinois wrote:We got a bad meal at Double Li because Mr Li, while charming, simply did not believe that we like authentic.

LAZ wrote:I ordered Szechwan dumplings.... After I was about halfway through this exercise, my waitress returned and said my "potstickers" would be another 15 minutes -- was I willing to wait? "Or you can cancel." Since I hadn't ordered potstickers and didn't want any, I canceled.

However, I did order vegetables instead, both verbally and by pointing to "stir-fried mixed vegetables" in the vegetarian section of the menu. I waited, still rummaging around in the chilies for the chicken. Finally, the waitress returned bearing another dish: "Here is mixed vegetable fried rice," she announced.

This "mixed vegetable" dish consisted of a lot of pallid, bland and somewhat greasy rice with shrimp, chicken and tough, gray beef. The vegetables were limited to a few cubed carrots, peas and some bits of onion.