Niu Rou Mian (Chinese Beef Noodle Soup) Recipes

Niu Rou Mein @ mmm-yoso!

And, in a coordinate effort,

Niu Ro Mian @ Eat, Drink & Be Merry

E.M.

Thanks Erik! I think I'll try this soon.

mmm-yoso!
sounds excellent cept for :
"8 - Garnish with Spinach"

^ yah, i don't THINK SO.

ching gang tsai 青江菜 (baby bok choy) instead per pix shown on "eatdrinknbmerry". the crunchiness of the bok choy offsets the tender chewiness of the beef shank. i don't see how spinach would serve this purpose?

i believe Mandarin Kitchen has niu rou mian with 'hand kneed' noodles... in certain northern style restaurants, you can get hand shaved noodles in the niu rou mian...

TonyC--

You mention "hand-shaved" noodles. Folks in Wuhan used to talk about that method for making breakfast noodles. I heard about it, but never saw/tasted it. Know anything about this dish, or method?

Geo
PS. 20 yrs ago in Wuhan--sheesh, in all of Hubei province--there wasn't an edible piece of beef. One of my students had a brother in restaurant food service, and he could get us edible chicken (sometimes) and some awfully good pork. But beef was simply impossible. Basically, it was your 20-something, retired [died in the traces?] water buffalo...

TonyC wrote:mmm-yoso!
sounds excellent cept for :
"8 - Garnish with Spinach"

^ yah, i don't THINK SO.

I think so! Why, because my Wife - who's from QingDao hates bok choy in this....

BTW, next time my MIL is in town I'll make sure to document her knife-cut noodles and mantou...

mmm-yoso wrote:BTW, next time my MIL is in town I'll make sure to document her knife-cut noodles and mantou...

Welcome to LTHforum ... I loof forward to your future post on how to make knife-cut noodles and mantou.

Thanks!

after the thread, i ran over to Mandarin Kitchen for their niou nan mian (similar to niou rou, but instead of beef shanks it had uhh... i dunno how to translate it... more tendonous/fatty cuts of beef) with "hand kneed" noodles. the flavor was great! but i would've liked a heavier dose of star of anise + szechuan peppercorn than chinese 5 spices. tho i shouldn't, i tossed in a spoonful of the hot sauce to give it a wee bit kick. and yes, they served spinach. BAH to SPINACH! i like mine tawainese style w/ the bok choy.

before starting a rampant search for hand shaved chinese noodles, i must admit i mistranslated. it should be literally knife-shaved noodle: 刀削麺 .
served in SF restaurants mentioned here :
http://eat.tanspace.com/archives/category/shanghai/ &
http://www.chowhound.com/california/boards/sanfrancisco23/messages/87708.html
as well as a few restaurants in Flushing, NY & C-town, NYC (and i'm sure countless others on the West Coast). knife-shaved noodles have distinct feature of being... inconsistently thick/thin within the same strand. they're heartier, more doughy than typical noodles and are popular in the Shangxi province.. say in a city such as Taiyuan.

after someone finds this noodle in Chicago, one can probe deeper and perhaps find a chef adroit enough to make 'hand stretched' (pulling hundreds of noodles from a piece of dough by hand) noodles. 拉麺 , ie, la mian (true origin of the word ramen). LA Times 10/13/05 article discusses possibly the earliest "la mian" (4000 years old) as discovered by Chinese archaeologists. if you haven't seen someone make hundreds of strings of noodles by "swinging" a huge piece of dough up and down hundreds of times... well.. i dunno what to say... (nor can i provide pix/vid... never thought there'd be global interest in la mian)...

In Philadelphia last year, I stepped into a teeny unassuming noodle shop. I don't think there was a single English alphabet on the sign outside - which is probably what tempted me to peer in. There was a person at the back making noodles. The very basic menu offered maybe eight or ten different noodle soup dishes. The noodles were 'fresh' and the noodle maker would go over and drop the noodles into the broth - all in plain view. There were two choices of noodle style - either regular or shaved. In our five day stay there we probably had four meals at this place - we wanted to try as many dishes as we could (and as I mentioned there weren't too many). When we ordered 'shaved' noodles, the noodle maker/chef would pick up the the hunk of dough he was working with, go over to the large broth of pot, and rapidly slice pieces off dough that flew into the broth. These were thick 'noodle' slices, the size of say thick slices of potato obtained with a peeler - wonderfully chewy and tasty and marvelous in the soups. I cannot remember what the name of the shop is, I don't know if I even knew. But I can never go to Philadelphia and not seek that place out. It made me wish that Chicago Chinatown too had a fresh noodle shop.

I've mentioned the place several times over the years, but the single best Chinese noodle soup I've had in Chicago is actually in Downer's Grove, which might not be a huge surprise as its within a short drive of Diho, LSC and Fabulous Noodles. The noodles are house-made and, I believe, hand-pulled. As a bonus, it's in the suburban version of the Lawrence and Kedzie strip mall.

Katy's (aka "K's") Dumpling House, Cass & Ogden.

Maybe they would make knife-shaved noodles if you asked. It is a very spare little room, and the staff is fairly surly. Great soup, however.

Some disagree, but Saraskim backed me up.

Tnx for the excellent discussion of hand-shaved noodles. They sound delicious.

I'm going to be in Boston for a while next month-- anyone know a noodle shop there?

We had for nearly 30 yrs a hand-puller of noodles here in KC. 'Sue' and 'Bob' 's father started Princess Garden back in the late 70s, and he used to make noodles out front two or three times a night. As he got older, and the restaurant more and more successful, he limited his performances to weekend evenings. It was always a wonderful show, and, once you got to be one of his favorites, you got a dish from his noodles, too.

Heh-heh, I use his noodle-pulling as an example of a binary expansion--a model for truth-tables! -- for my baby logic students every semester.

Man, all this talk is making me hungry for some noodles...

Geo

Ok, so I searched and I found:

http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/view.php?id=10715

http://cityguide.aol.com/philadelphia/e ... =117753569

Nanzhou Handdrawn Noodle House
927 Race St
Philadelphia, PA 19107

Nanzhou? Where's *Nanzhou*?

Best noodles I ever had in my life were in Hangzhou... oh boy, oh boy, oh boy.

(Must be lunch time...)

g

apparently the most 'famous' hand pulled noodles in town is:
Yu's
200 E Golf Rd
Schaumburg, IL 60173-3735 View Map
(847) 882-5340

never been, never seen... but i'm told it's got a decent room, and the noodles are decent.

jeff: to make you at ease... I believe the chinese name is lao to ze? and yes per my coworkers, it's sposedly the cheapest greatest chinese noodle shop in town dollar for dollar... fwiw:

citysearch review wrote:this place has been better than places that i've had when in chinatown, china or even taiwan. now, that is quite a compliment. whether it's the homemade hand pulled noodles in their famous beef noodle soup

Erik M. wrote:Niu Rou Mein @ mmm-yoso!

And, in a coordinate effort,

Niu Ro Mian @ Eat, Drink & Be Merry

E.M.

I'm kind of surprised the mmmyoso recipe just uses chili paste. Doesn't seem like it'd be that flavorful, which is the problem I've found in a lot of restaurant versions.

By coincidence, I just made some spicy beef noodle soup the other night based on my mom's recipe, which is also similar to the one my aunt makes at her hole-in-the-wall restaurant in Dallas and not too different from the eatdrinknbmerry version.

To get the heat (and extra flavor), you use a tablespoon or so of spicy bean paste--la doban jiang, which are found in those small blue cans in the Asian grocery store. Also add a spoonful of regular black bean paste, soy sauce, rice wine, ginger slices, smashed garlic cloves, green onion, and a touch of brown sugar. Heat till fragrant in oil then add the beef chunks and beef broth.

I like my soup w/ bok choy and I use the fresh noodles in the refrigerated section of the Asian grocery store.

I'd post a picture, but I just had the rest of the leftovers for lunch :)

"I'm kind of surprised the mmmyoso recipe just uses chili paste. Doesn't seem like it'd be that flavorful, which is the problem I've found in a lot of restaurant versions."


Hi Janet - I've used Sichuan Hot Bean Paste - which I use in alot of my cooking, but found it doesn't add anything to the dish. I've found that by first blackening dried chilies - if you read carefully, that creates the base of heat(chili oil), along with peppercorns and white pepper, and the chili paste - I'm hitting the "three portions of the tongue" - to quote my Father In Law from Hunan. Also, I'm very fond of the beefy flavor, which the clear broth lacks...but it's just my personal interpretation. I've had at least 25 different versions of Niu Rou Mein in the San Gabriel Valley when we lived in LA, and now in San Diego. In many versions the taste of anise is very prevalent, but my Wife who's from Qingdao doesn't enjoy it much - I guess it's the joy of something like Niu Rou Mein, there are so many versions!

Hi,

Thanks for explaining your method. I think I'll have to try that version some time. Can I ask what kind of chili paste you use? I always get a little frustrated when recipes call for "chili paste" because I'm never sure which one to go with b/c there are so many variations.

I forgot the anise this last time I made beef noodle soup, but I usually add one or two so there's a hint of it but it's not overwhelming.

mmm-yoso wrote:
Hi Janet - I've used Sichuan Hot Bean Paste - which I use in alot of my cooking, but found it doesn't add anything to the dish. I've found that by first blackening dried chilies - if you read carefully, that creates the base of heat(chili oil), along with peppercorns and white pepper, and the chili paste - I'm hitting the "three portions of the tongue" - to quote my Father In Law from Hunan. Also, I'm very fond of the beefy flavor, which the clear broth lacks...but it's just my personal interpretation. I've had at least 25 different versions of Niu Rou Mein in the San Gabriel Valley when we lived in LA, and now in San Diego. In many versions the taste of anise is very prevalent, but my Wife who's from Qingdao doesn't enjoy it much - I guess it's the joy of something like Niu Rou Mein, there are so many versions!

Hi Janet - I use a good quality Vietnamese Brand ground chili paste. I once found a great Chinese brand, forgot it's name, but I'd recognize the bottle - that I've never been able to find again - with my luck, it's probably banned in the US! I've been itching to try Sichuan Peppercorns, but have recently had Niu Rou Mein with them, and didn't think it added to the dish.
If you want it really hot - add home made chili oil after simmering.

Kirk

Hi Kirk,

Can you describe the bottle of the Chinese brand? I'm going to Dallas this week for my grandma's birthday and my aunt, who runs a Chinese restaurant there, may know of it and maybe how/where to obtain some.

Janet

mmm-yoso wrote:Hi Janet - I use a good quality Vietnamese Brand ground chili paste. I once found a great Chinese brand, forgot it's name, but I'd recognize the bottle - that I've never been able to find again - with my luck, it's probably banned in the US! I've been itching to try Sichuan Peppercorns, but have recently had Niu Rou Mein with them, and didn't think it added to the dish.
If you want it really hot - add home made chili oil after simmering.

Kirk

Maybe of some relevance - I've tried various brands of Sichuan Hot bean paste (doban jian). Tony (of LSC) recommended I look for Pixian hot bean paste. Pixian county in Sichuan province is famed for hot bean paste (see Dunlop's Land of PlentyAmazon link). Our main use for the bean paste is for Chen Ma Po Doufu in which the taste of the bean paste is very prominent and makes a big difference. The latest jar we got (at Chinatown Market) has been the best so far - I can't give you a brand since it was all in Chinese, but it did mention Pixian and the manufacturers address was in Sichuan. There are a couple of brands that may fit this description; the jar I currently have is a small round plastic jar with a red plastic lid. Most of these jars were oily/greasy on the outside and the label has fallen off. The Lee Kum Kee brand which was one of the first we tried is good but has nowhere near the depth of flavor the Pixian ones have.

Chinatown Market Inc.
2121 S. Archer Ave.
Chicago, IL 60616
312-881-0068

mmm-yoso wrote:I've been itching to try Sichuan Peppercorns, but have recently had Niu Rou Mein with them, and didn't think it added to the dish.
Kirk

i just had some ma po to fu last nite made with plenty of (personally carried) hua jiao / sichuan peppercorn... the MA factor is always amazing.

every chinese person knows a good beef stew can NOT be had w/o ba jiao (whole star of anise) & hua jiao. the combination is distinct and necessary. i was taught, in the 6th grade, while making 'meat' dishes as a latchkey kid, the combination is a national & bare minimal standard. so IMNSHO, the fact hat u've never had niu rou stewed w/ hua jiao seriously slights your reputation.

TonyC wrote: every chinese person knows a good beef stew can NOT be had w/o ba jiao (whole star of anise) & hua jiao. the combination is distinct and necessary. i was taught, in the 6th grade, while making 'meat' dishes as a latchkey kid, the combination is a national & bare minimal standard. so IMNSHO, the fact hat u've never had niu rou stewed w/ hua jiao seriously slights your reputation.

The anise I'm familiar with, but I've never heard of sichuan peppercorn as being a "national and minimal standard" in making this dish. All of my relatives have their variations of making this, and I've had it a good many times at various restaurants, but none of them use sichuan peppercorns as far as I know. I'm sure there may be versions that use sichuan peppercorn, but before you question others' reputations, I'd like to know what credentials validate your speaking for all Chinese on the making of this dish.

Hi All - Well let's clarify a few things, ok?
1 - I made this recipe for myself, this is how I enjoy it. I initially did this on my own Food Blog - it's what I like to eat, not about reputation, and not showing off. I really don't care if you read it or not. Because, to be frank, I'm eating it not you - go get your own food blog, OK? I didn't even know that this was being linked, until I checked the referring sites.
2 - I never made any claims of "authenticy", in fact, I almost never claim, "authenticy" on my site, for reasons, that will soon become clear.
3 - If you're looking for an authentic recipe - maybe TonyC has one, on his site????

BTW, here's a pretty good NRM, served at a very well known and "Reputable" Restaurant in the San Gabriel Valley called Tung Lai Shun - notice - no sichuan peppercorn, and the use of SPINACH - my God, the humanity! BTW, at 10 of the places I've had Niu Rou Mein, they served it with spinach. Of course I can't vouch for authenticy, because this is a Muslim Chinese place, and many times they don't serve their NRM, "red cooked" and sometimes with only green onions.

http://apassionforfood.blogspot.com/200 ... -kirk.html

I've had about 25 different bowls of Niu Rou Mein - and they have all been different. So unfortunately,I haven't been conditioned enough to "calcify" an idea in my mind. In fact if you READ, I just said I had Niu Rou Mein with hajiao, in fact at my favorite Sichuan Restaurant, but did not care for it. So I went back to speak to the Chef, who's pretty reputable, He has over 30 years of experience and was originally a Chef at Traffic Hotel, a 4 star hotel in Chongqing, so when he says something I'll listen. The Sichuan version has peppercorns and Zhacai, which they removed from the dish when he was still at ChungKing Restaurant in Monterey Park - the largely Taiwanese customers didn't like it. BTW, he also mentioned that NRM in the US is basically the popular "Spicy" (notice he did not say Sichuan) Taiwanese version. If you're ever in San Diego, the name of the Restaurant is Ba Ren, I've had a major Chowhound dinner there last year, and the food is to my taste, we used to drive all the way to LA to get Sichuan before.

I'm guessing that NRM stirs up emotion as much as Chili and American BBQ.

In fact, it is thought that NRM was invented in Taiwan, by ROC(Kuomintang) Military personnel who fled to Taiwan. So what's authentic? I don't think anyone really knows, in Northern China they don't use much sichuan peppercorn......Maybe, TonyC can fill us in? Being strong in your beliefs is great, but being small-minded, well......it's preference, I've had at least 25 different bowls of Niu Rou Mein, not 25 of the same recipe. I think things would be alot better if people were to perhaps ask questions, i.e. "Why do you use spinach in this dish?", and my answer would be, that the Missus doesn't like Bok Choy, or even God forbid Napa Cabbage in this dish, she likens biting into bok choy in this dish to be like biting into a pouch of lousy tasting water, or maybe "Are you claiming this to be authentic?" Instead of making ASS-umptions, don't you think?

You know, I enjoy all types of food, authentic or not, no matter what price range, so long it tastes good. I don't just eat things because they are authentic, or just to show how much I know, or how cultured I am, I just want them to taste good! So please don't visit my site:

http://mmm-yoso.typepad.com/

OK?

Yeah, "authentic" has a tendency to mean "the way I grew up eating it."

We need to stop having these fights ourselves, and just let our Moms fight it out. They, after all, are the sources....

Here's another interesting thread on various noodle soups:

http://www.hawaiidiner.com/articles/art ... rticle=413

Just more "food for thought".

Actually posted as a "definitive" look a noodles from Egullet - again, who knows?

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?s=b ... opic=77097

OK, I've been holding off on this, but I can't hold myself off any longer: Surely someone out there can say some interesting and informative words about the connection (? or lack of it, for all that) between NRM and phô?

Monday I had a wonderful bowl of NRM Sichuan-style at Joe's Noodles in Rockville MD. I was again struck by the potent analogies between the two soups.

What, if anything, do we know about the cultural links between them?

Geo
PS. Here's a really nice site:

http://www.hewnandhammered.com/pho/

I really don't know much about the connection. And I know we're getting a bit off subject - but I had this bookmarked:

http://www.vietworldkitchen.com/bookshe ... ho_SJM.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pho

following up. my ROC bred, not-good-enough-to-be-published-onto-a-food-blog version:



major components:
wide noodles
beef tenderloin
ba jiao (star of anise)
hua jiao (SZ peppercorn - and plenty of it)
5 spice in cheesecloth - note, product of Taiwan. in case you want to import this directly, the telephone # of the factory is available on the bag:



major MISSING component:
zha cai (pickled mustard greens)

and to scoff at "KMT" cuisine with "what's authentic?" is war-inspiring. is "Taiwanese" food not a viable, sustainable cuisine?

finally, the mother of all n.r.m. sites:
Taipei Niu Ro Mien Festival 2005. the site proclaims: the world's n.r.m. capital is Taipei"
and their recipe posted:
http://www.tbnf.com.tw/m_diy.htm
the special ingredient in this recipe is 辣豆瓣醬, spicy soy bean paste.

** i'm upping this thread because the girlie just walked by the Islamic restaurant in question this afternoon on her way upstairs to the 2 Taiwanese (i dunno which one she picked) cafes. the blogger, indeed, is no expert on n.r.m. why someone would order a bowl of beef noodle @ Tung Lai Shun instead the other 2 Taiwanese offersing in "Life Plaza" at is beyond me.

TonyC, that NRM looks excellent. Nice cuts of beef, great soup color.

At Katy's Dumpling House - see this post

That soup looks delicious