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Creme Fraiche
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  • Post #31 - November 30th, 2010, 7:05 pm
    Post #31 - November 30th, 2010, 7:05 pm Post #31 - November 30th, 2010, 7:05 pm
    I'm trying to find somewhere that I can buy heavy cream that isn't ultrapasteurized. I'm in Naperville but I'll travel if anybody knows of a store that stocks any.
  • Post #32 - November 30th, 2010, 7:09 pm
    Post #32 - November 30th, 2010, 7:09 pm Post #32 - November 30th, 2010, 7:09 pm
    Most grocery stores carry Dean's Heavy Cream which is just pasteurized.
    Trader Joe's also has a version, but it has carrageenan in it. The Dean's product has nothing added.
    Jyoti
    A meal, with bread and wine, shared with friends and family is among the most essential and important of all human rituals.
    Ruhlman
  • Post #33 - November 30th, 2010, 7:17 pm
    Post #33 - November 30th, 2010, 7:17 pm Post #33 - November 30th, 2010, 7:17 pm
    I had NO idea that Dean's was an option. I just assumed they wouldn't be. Thanks. I'll pick some up.
  • Post #34 - November 30th, 2010, 8:04 pm
    Post #34 - November 30th, 2010, 8:04 pm Post #34 - November 30th, 2010, 8:04 pm
    Jean Blanchard wrote:I'm trying to find somewhere that I can buy heavy cream that isn't ultrapasteurized. I'm in Naperville but I'll travel if anybody knows of a store that stocks any.


    If you have access to any of the local farmers heavy whipping cream, then it probably isn't pasteurized. I think Kilgus Farm's, they may be at the Green City Market tomorrow has unpasteurized heavy whipping cream. I used it to successfully make 2 separate batches of creme fraiche.
    Ava-"If you get down and out, just get in the kitchen and bake a cake."- Jean Strickland

    Horto In Urbs- Falling in love with Urban Vegetable Gardening
  • Post #35 - April 11th, 2011, 11:02 pm
    Post #35 - April 11th, 2011, 11:02 pm Post #35 - April 11th, 2011, 11:02 pm
    HI,

    According to Food in jars, if you made your own creme fraiche, you are now 15 minutes away from making cultured butter.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #36 - April 12th, 2011, 3:11 pm
    Post #36 - April 12th, 2011, 3:11 pm Post #36 - April 12th, 2011, 3:11 pm
    Cathy2 wrote:HI,

    According to Food in jars, if you made your own creme fraiche, you are now 15 minutes away from making cultured butter.

    Regards,


    I read the same piece today.
    Ava-"If you get down and out, just get in the kitchen and bake a cake."- Jean Strickland

    Horto In Urbs- Falling in love with Urban Vegetable Gardening
  • Post #37 - May 19th, 2011, 10:02 am
    Post #37 - May 19th, 2011, 10:02 am Post #37 - May 19th, 2011, 10:02 am
    I've made homemade crème fraîche in the past, and it's always been too runny (I've used the 1 T:1 c. buttermilk/heavy cream ratio). After reading the Serious Eats post, I was inspired to give it another try, this time, with 2 T. buttermilk to 1 c. heavy cream, as specified in the recipe. After 8 hours on the countertop, it was still runny, so I flipped on the oven and off (no more than ten seconds), and stuck the jar in there for the remainder of the day. (I think my kitchen is too drafty.) The result was nothing short of spectacular: thick, creamy, glistening, and tangy. The appearance is nothing like the kind sold in the grocery store. I will never buy this stuff again.

    P.S. A friend who doesn't like the grocery store version has been making her own for years, but she uses a heating pad (set to low) wrapped around the jar. The catch is that you need to find an older model heating pad that doesn't have the auto-shutoff.
  • Post #38 - May 19th, 2011, 10:13 am
    Post #38 - May 19th, 2011, 10:13 am Post #38 - May 19th, 2011, 10:13 am
    jygach wrote:Most grocery stores carry Dean's Heavy Cream which is just pasteurized.


    N.B. re Dean's: Dean's has both pasteurized and ultrapasteurized. The carton that is labeled "fresh" is only pasteurized.
  • Post #39 - May 19th, 2011, 11:15 am
    Post #39 - May 19th, 2011, 11:15 am Post #39 - May 19th, 2011, 11:15 am
    Aschie, just curious, when it turns out too runny, do you think draining it in cheesecloth would also work?
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #40 - May 19th, 2011, 11:21 am
    Post #40 - May 19th, 2011, 11:21 am Post #40 - May 19th, 2011, 11:21 am
    Aschie,

    You can now cut back to one tablespoon on the buttermilk. Your obsticle was not enough warmth. My oven has a bread proofing temperature of 100 degrees. I use this feature for creme fraiche as well as yogurt, especially in winter.

    I want to try making cultured butter from the homemade creme fraiche next.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #41 - May 19th, 2011, 11:37 am
    Post #41 - May 19th, 2011, 11:37 am Post #41 - May 19th, 2011, 11:37 am
    Katie wrote:Aschie, just curious, when it turns out too runny, do you think draining it in cheesecloth would also work?


    No. It was entirely too liquid.

    Cathy2 wrote:You can now cut back to one tablespoon on the buttermilk. Your obsticle was not enough warmth. My oven has a bread proofing temperature of 100 degrees. I use this feature for creme fraiche as well as yogurt, especially in winter.


    Yup, that's why I posted about putting it in the oven. (I've also made yogurt this way.) Anyway, I didn't up the buttermilk because I thought it would thicken it, I did it for taste. Other versions I've made didn't have enough tanginess for me, so I think I'll keep it at 2 tablespoons buttermilk per cup of heavy cream.
  • Post #42 - May 19th, 2011, 11:48 am
    Post #42 - May 19th, 2011, 11:48 am Post #42 - May 19th, 2011, 11:48 am
    aschie30 wrote:so I flipped on the oven and off (no more than ten seconds)


    I don't have the bread proofing setting on my oven and it's gas (and a piece of GE Profile crap)--any thoughts on what temp you'd be trying to get to and then how to sustain it for a period of time that would produce the desired results? I'd really like to try this.
    "Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad." Miles Kington
  • Post #43 - May 19th, 2011, 12:42 pm
    Post #43 - May 19th, 2011, 12:42 pm Post #43 - May 19th, 2011, 12:42 pm
    Speaking as someone who bakes bread a lot, but hasn't made Creme Fraiche, you usually don't want the proofing environment much over 100 degrees. I actually aim for a lower temperature, say in the high 70s. In any case, you can do any of the following:

    1. Turn your oven on to the lowest setting. When it stops preheating, turn the oven off and keep it off. It should stay warm enough (and without drafts) for your purposes. If not, you can always turn the oven back on for a second or third cycle.

    2. If the lowest setting on your oven is still too warm (about say 120 degrees), then follow the directions above, but turn the oven off before it stops preheating. That is, turn it off when if feels slightly warm inside.

    3. Boil water, pour it isn't a heat-proof container, and put that in the oven (with the oven off). The heat of the water will warm the oven for a couple of hours.
  • Post #44 - May 19th, 2011, 1:06 pm
    Post #44 - May 19th, 2011, 1:06 pm Post #44 - May 19th, 2011, 1:06 pm
    HI,

    I never used the proofing cycle for bread, yet. However, my kitchen can be chilly in winter and not condusive to raising anything.

    My oven also has a shabbat setting, though I have never explored it. I joke the oven is the only Kosher observer in the house.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #45 - May 19th, 2011, 2:53 pm
    Post #45 - May 19th, 2011, 2:53 pm Post #45 - May 19th, 2011, 2:53 pm
    Even in my cold house, I think I just left it overnight on top of the stove. I never had to up the heat. Also GE Profile Gas, but it hasn't given us any problems... yet.
    Ava-"If you get down and out, just get in the kitchen and bake a cake."- Jean Strickland

    Horto In Urbs- Falling in love with Urban Vegetable Gardening
  • Post #46 - May 19th, 2011, 3:18 pm
    Post #46 - May 19th, 2011, 3:18 pm Post #46 - May 19th, 2011, 3:18 pm
    Darren72 wrote:2. If the lowest setting on your oven is still too warm (about say 120 degrees), then follow the directions above, but turn the oven off before it stops preheating. That is, turn it off when if feels slightly warm inside.


    This is what I did. My oven's lowest setting is 135 degrees (minus thirty degrees to the bad, so really, it's 105), which is why I turned it off after a few seconds. I was aiming for a temperature of 105-110 (yogurt-making temperature), although anything cooler to about 70 degrees would work, too. I think the key is that the jar has to be in an area that is at least 70 degrees, and draft-free. If your oven has a pilot light you could probably skip this pre-heat step, or you could even turn on the oven light, as that would likely provide enough consistent ambient heat to allow for thickening.
  • Post #47 - May 20th, 2011, 9:21 am
    Post #47 - May 20th, 2011, 9:21 am Post #47 - May 20th, 2011, 9:21 am
    Hi,

    You can always purchase "manufacturers" cream at any Meijer grocery store. Pasteurized and no additives.

    This product makes is extremely simple to make wonderful double cream, creme fraiche, mascarpone, ricotta or cultured butter. You can also use a range of culturing agents to customize your flavor profile. Yesterday a friend gave me some wonderful creme fraiche that was cultured overnight at room temp with fresh sheep's milk cheese.

    Tim
  • Post #48 - May 20th, 2011, 10:03 am
    Post #48 - May 20th, 2011, 10:03 am Post #48 - May 20th, 2011, 10:03 am
    Tim wrote:This product makes is extremely simple to make wonderful double cream, creme fraiche, mascarpone, ricotta or cultured butter. You can also use a range of culturing agents to customize your flavor profile. Yesterday a friend gave me some wonderful creme fraiche that was cultured overnight at room temp with fresh sheep's milk cheese.

    Tim,

    I hope you might write some threads outlining how to make ricotta, double cream, marscapone and cultured butter.

    I do make my own yogurt and creme fraiche. I now have some idea of making cultured butter from creme fraiche, though I have not done it yet. I have accidentally made butter when making whipped cream.

    Also pointers on cultures would be interesting, too. Especially ones you like as opposed to those you didn't.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #49 - May 20th, 2011, 2:03 pm
    Post #49 - May 20th, 2011, 2:03 pm Post #49 - May 20th, 2011, 2:03 pm
    Cathy2 wrote:My oven has a bread proofing temperature of 100 degrees. I use this feature for creme fraiche as well as yogurt, especially in winter.

    aschie30 wrote:Yup, that's why I posted about putting it in the oven. (I've also made yogurt this way.)

    One temperature doesn't fit all when it comes to microorganisms. The bacteria used to make yogurt (Lactobacillus bulgaricus and Streptococcus thermophilus) are classified as thermophiles—that is, they like higher temperatures. Those used for cultured buttermilk and crème fraîche (various subspecies of Lactococcus lactis and sometimes Leuconostoc mesenteroides) are mesophilc organisms—in other words, they're happiest at medium temperatures. Generally, commercial yogurt is incubated around 110° F and buttermilk around 72° F.

    As with sauerkraut, that's not to say you can't get good results by doing things differently. Yogurt incubated above 110° will favor Lactobacillus growth, resulting in more acid but less complex flavor; temperatures below 110° favor the Streptococcus, less acid and more flavors. Similarly for buttermilk (and I assume crème fraîche), temperatures above 72° favor Lactococcus, thus more acid, less flavor; below 72° favors Leuconostoc, less acid, more flavor.

    aschie30 wrote:After 8 hours on the countertop, it was still runny, so I flipped on the oven and off (no more than ten seconds), and stuck the jar in there for the remainder of the day. (I think my kitchen is too drafty.) The result was nothing short of spectacular: thick, creamy, glistening, and tangy.

    In the first 8 hours of this two-step protocol, probably Leuconostoc was busily churning out the flavor molecules but was unable to produce enough acid to cause the milk proteins to aggregate. When shifted to a higher temperature the Lactococci took over and made enough acid to cause aggregation of the casein into a gel-like matrix ("thick"). It sounds like you stumbled onto the perfect way to make crème fraîche in your kitchen; the trick may be to do it reproducibly.

    aschie30 wrote:Anyway, I didn't up the buttermilk because I thought it would thicken it, I did it for taste. Other versions I've made didn't have enough tanginess for me, so I think I'll keep it at 2 tablespoons buttermilk per cup of heavy cream.

    If you incubate at a controlled temperature somewhat over 72° that ought to give you more tang. It's the temperature more than the amount of starter culture that affects the result. It rarely hurts to add a little more starter and it's a good idea to use the freshest buttermilk you can get (the bacteria die off during storage, even in the refrigerator).

    Cathy2 wrote:I want to try making cultured butter from the homemade creme fraiche next.

    For butter, I would guess that lower incubation temperatures might be preferable. You want more complex flavors but don't want all the fat entrapped in the protein matrix.

    Tim wrote:You can also use a range of culturing agents to customize your flavor profile. Yesterday a friend gave me some wonderful creme fraiche that was cultured overnight at room temp with fresh sheep's milk cheese.

    It's definitely worth trying different brands of buttermilk, different types of cultured milks or various commercial cultures to find ones that suit you. The microbes used for fresh goat cheese should be very similar to those used for crème fraîche. If you look at the descriptions at New England Cheesemaking Supply Company you'll see that the types of bacteria are the same in their chèvre and crème fraîche cultures: Lactococcus lactis subsp lactis, Lactococcus lactis subsp cremoris and Lactococcus lactis subsp lactis biovar diacetylactis (I assume they accidentally left out "lactis" as the subspecies for this last bug). It's interesting they don't include any Leuconostoc species, usually included in buttermilk cultures.

    I've made many batches of yogurt and some occasional crème fraîche but wouldn't consider myself to have much practical knowledge. Much of what I summarized above is textbook information. Sometimes slightly different microorganisms are used than the ones I mentioned. They might have different growth characteristics and temperature optima but I think most of what I wrote is generally true. If nothing else it should provide a rational basis for fiddling with or troubleshooting recipes. Now that I have a controllable water bath I hope to do some fiddling myself.

    For an excellent nontechnical introduction to cultured dairy products (with some great recipes) see Anne Mendelson's Milk: The Surprising Story of Milk Through the Ages. I just started reading it and am quite impressed.
  • Post #50 - May 21st, 2011, 11:54 am
    Post #50 - May 21st, 2011, 11:54 am Post #50 - May 21st, 2011, 11:54 am
    Rene,

    I am impressed. Thank you. This also explains why I prefer low temp cultures.

    I will gather my recipes for a thread.

    Tim
  • Post #51 - June 23rd, 2017, 9:15 am
    Post #51 - June 23rd, 2017, 9:15 am Post #51 - June 23rd, 2017, 9:15 am
    I had cream but I was out of buttermilk.

    I made creme fraiche yesterday. Mixed cream and a couple of tablespoons of buttermilk. Covered. Relocated it to a warmer spot in the home. And before bed it was ready. So I moved it to the refrigerator.

    I want to give buttermilk a try. My Joy of Cooking includes recipes for buttermilk, sour cream, and cream fresh.

    And it looks like I could have used the sour cream I already had and added that to the fresh cream to make creme fraiche as well.

    Anyone given that version a go?
    Ava-"If you get down and out, just get in the kitchen and bake a cake."- Jean Strickland

    Horto In Urbs- Falling in love with Urban Vegetable Gardening

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