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Months of burger-centric conversation have taken place in these two threads:

Kuma's Corner

Burgers, burgers

So the groundwork has already been laid. Of all the places that LTH has turned me onto, none but Kuma's has hit me the way their burgers, beer, staff and niche has. Even with the off night I posted about a couple months ago, I still remain a loyal customer and fan - and thankfully they seem to have overcome a couple growing pains.

They've been around in some way, shape and form since '05 but really started hitting on all cylinders early this year with their metal-burger menu. I hope they keeping going for a long time to come, as they seem to have really hit their stride - and thank god that boxing game is gone.

Kuma's
2900 W. Belmont Ave
Chicago, IL
773-604-8769

I am happy to second this nomination. Which, as it happens, is our first-ever second nomination of a place.

A couple of years ago Kuma's was nominated but I was one of those who found it less than the sum of its parts. Enough so-so reviews doomed it that time, as not really reaching the somewhat-indefinable level of overall support and coherent excellence that makes a place a Great Neighborhood Restaurant.

But I tried Kuma's again and so did other folks. And some months later, however long that was, it was clear that Kuma's had grown into its potential. The food was surprisingly good and sophisticated for a pub, the beer list was thoughtful, regional, serious; the place was well-managed, friendly, efficient in its own tattooed and pierced way. And perhaps most to the point, it had a gotta-have-it menu item:



Which lots of people here have, in fact, had by now. So I am happy to second this nomination. Chicago is full of bars with attitude; Kuma's is the rare bar with a personality, a sensibility, a point of view. It's a roughcut gem, probably set into a part of the body I'd rather not think about the process of piercing.

As the original nominator of Kuma's, I third this nomination. Yob + fried egg = heaven on a (pretzel) bun!

I did a quick scan of the GNRs and didn't see it - I'm assuming that when a place doesn't make the cut the thread is hidden. In any event, here's hoping that the second time is the charm.



(And yes, I've added more to this card since I first scanned it.)

Yes, it is. No sense in rubbing it in-- the reason, after all, is often just that not enough folks have tried it or written interestingly about it yet, not that we judged it qualitatively by some definitive process.

My singular Kuma experience was a mixed bag. The waitress, the crowd, the menu, were all great. Quirky and interesting, good-humored and welcoming though most certainly not my peers.

I was excited by all the burger options, and constructed my own unique headbanger delight. But my burger was overdone, which wrecked a lot of it. The beer was good, though.

I am prepared to write off this experience to a number of things, including the tendency of restaurants, particularly in Chicago, to overcook burgers unless you are very clear that you want blood (I suspect there is some insurance edict behind this - damned underwriters). I am prepared to defer to the esteemed posters who have been there so many more times than me, and deem this place very good.

I am prepared, in short, to discount my mixed experience. But next time I will be very clear on how red I expect my burger to be.

Anyone else have this issue?

I go to Kuma's regularly (but I wouldn't call myself a "regular").

I'm particularly pleased by this nomination because I came out against it the last time they were nominated.

Kuma's has undergone quite a few changes since they've opened. At first, they were BYO with a basic bar menu. I went once and left unexcited and un-interested. The place had personality, but personality only goes so far.

Then, a new chef, beers, and an updated menu with two stellar burgers. Kuma's was now a place I wanted to eat at more often.

Finally, phase three introduced the unique, now famous, burger menu, and a few touches that turned up the volume on the personality to match the volume of the stereo.

I dig the burgers. I appreciate the the staff, and I especially love the small, but thoughtfully chosen draft beer choices.

I love Kuma's and I don't know another place quite like it, in Chicago or anywhere else for that matter.

Best,
Michael

I've now been to Kuma's 5-6 times and ordered burgers to various degrees of doneness (and my girlfriend gets hers basically raw). Not once has either of our burgers been overcooked, and this did not involve any sort of special request on our parts. This is not to deny the reality of your experience but merely to suggest that it could be attributable to a harried kitchen rather than any sort of squeamishness.

And, yeah, this place deserves a GNR. I don't drink and can't stand metal and I still go here happily.

My burger last night, ordered medium, came out thoroughly overcooked and bone dry. The fries were overdone, and the bacon was underdone (both on my burger and in beth's Mac & Cheese).

It was a disappointing meal, but my other visits to Kuma's have proven that this is an exception, not the rule.

As I posted in the Kuma's thread, we ordered our 2 burgers medium-rare. One was perfect, the other one was somewhere between medium and medium-well. I still found the overall experience quite enjoyable and would categorize most of my criticism of the place as nitpicking.

=R=

My friends,

I've been to Kuma's three times since first learning about it here on LTH. And, really, for me that's just it - Kuma's is the best, most consistent place to get a burger in Chicago that I've been to and I can say that I would never have learned about, and tried this place out, had it not been for LTH. Kuma's is clearly the type of of place that makes me proud, or rather "thankful" is a better word, to be a member of this community.

Kuma's give me that "special" feeling warranting a GNR. It is unique, best-in-show in its primary food category (medium-high level burgers) and a great neighborhood restaurant. Few outside of its neighborhood or those hooked into the heavy metal undergorund scene would ever know about Kuma's if it were not for LTH.

Kuma's meets my personal LTH-GNR criteria of being a "no-brainer GNR". So, if you've been to a place, or read many a review on LTH, and need to think about whether the place deserves a GNR for more than 2 seconds, then it's not a GNR. Rather a simple standard but, I think, at least for me, a good one.

Kuma's, Laschet's, Patty's Diner, etc. all serving very different food are yet very similar in my book: Great Neighborhood Restaurants that make the patron feel special and make me want to drop everything and visit often.

Bster

I also feel that it should be a GNR. It is there for the neighborhood, but you want to go there even if you don't live there. Hey, maybe that's a good definition - if a place makes you want to live near it

I went there this weekend and had an excellent burger even if their chalkboard said, they're "anti wicker park". I made the drive anyway, and found a parking spot. I really wish I lived closer, or do I? The Kuma burger is substantial! Mine was cooked perfectly, and the fries were fantastic skin on, well done, like I like them. They didn't look like the steak fries in the above picture. I support the nomination, in fact, when I was there, I looked for a GNR sign, as I already thought they had one.

Kuma's is one of my favorite places in town. Great food, great beer, and always friendly service. And I even like the loud music. I have never been there and not felt welcomed. Even the few times when the food is below their high standards, they are always extremely accommodating.

For me, these are all critical qualities of a great neighborhood restaurant. I enthusiastically support this nomination.

Plus, if you order a shot, they put it in the neck of a little robot statue which you have to pick up in order to do the shot. It is called a "shot bot."

Yes! When Kuma's first opened and the bar was not that busy, the owner would occasionally buy a round of shot bots for those sitting at the bar. I seem to recall some robot dance as well. Or maybe that was just the Powers Whiskey talking.

No, I have done the Robot there as well. It wasn't whiskey-induced. Or maybe it was. For both of us.

At the risk of being labeled a blasphemer, Kuma's is not my kind of GNR. The burgers are fine, and no doubt creatively topped. But for me, a burger starts with high-quality meat, seasoned such that it can be enjoyed with minimal condiments and toppings. Kuma's burgers, however, fall flat without pineapple, bologna, pesto, grapefruit aioli, fried eggs, frizzled onions, anchovies, mango puree, or god knows what else they are putting on them this month.

Add that to the unholy wait times, heavy metal thump, and often gruff, impatient service and you have a GNR that I won't return to without being dragged there.

My $.02 -- keep the change.

We love Kuma's - Sparky enjoyed it in particular, as he loved the add-on mac and cheese. RAB, I've heard this criticism of the burger before, and I wonder if it isn't an occasional anomoly - while I like the toppings, I'm finicky about the meat in my burgers, and I always find them to taste explosively of cow. Both times we've been (and we couldn't possibly be more non-metal types) we've had excellent service, even with Sparky in tow (we ate on the patio.)

Now, we've never gone during the huge rushes - we went for lunch on a weekday and a very early summer dinner; it's possible that things are different if you go when it's busy.

I feel if any place has graduated the GNRs and should be allowed to move on in life, it's Kuma's. Not that it isn't capable of being very good-- of course it is. So are lots of famous places which are packed to the gills. But to quote David Dickson:



At this point Kuma's is about as "lesser-known" as the Rock and Roll McDonald's on a Friday night in June. Kuma's is a hot spot for Trads and Chixies, or whatever we're calling them now, there's a beeline to it from other Lincoln/Wicker Park watering holes. The GNRs may have had something to do with getting it there but I would submit that having gotten there, it is no longer the place that was honored here, and the value of LTHForum putting any effort into directing even more people to stand and wait 3 hours for a burger is essentially zero at this point.

I'm not saying popularity alone is a reason to dump it-- Hot Doug's is just as busy and it remains what it always was-- but what I am saying is, Kuma's has gone so far beyond what it was when it was honored here that I think it's time to bid it a fond farewell, congratulate it on its deserved success, and devote this community's finite energies to finding the next one.

Kuma's just isn't for me. The food's ok -- more novelty than anything else -- and I'm not overly impressed with it. In fact, not once have I been there when at least one burger at our table wasn't overcooked (no plethora of toppings can remedy this). Add to that the seriously conversation-restrictive music and insane crowds and I just can't support its renewal.

In addition to the points Mike raises above -- regarding his opinion that it no longer fulfills the GNR mission -- it's just not a place I could enthusiastically recommend, which is a personal GNR criterium for me. At this point in Kuma's existence, it's actually a place I would recommend avoiding, mainly because of how ridiculously crowded it has become. The only place I can remember ever waiting more than 2 hours for a table was at Mosca's in Avondale, Louisiana. There, the food was more than worth the wait. In my mind, the food at Kuma's doesn't really warrant such a wait.

=R=

The one time I've eaten at Kuma's they overcooked my burger. Ironically enough, that was at the dinner where the restaurant was presented with its GNR award.

I'll take my toppings-laden burger at Duke's, thank you very much. Right around the corner from my house, and no 2 hour wait.

Dukes
2616 N Clark St, Chicago
(773) 248-0250

This is an interesting angle on the renewals process that I don't think has been actively explored yet (and I'm surprised that some discussion hasn't sprung up around it). On the face of it, it seems like the renewal process is there to ensure that restaurants that suck don't still have GNR status held over from previous greatness.

But, Kuma's doesn't suck (in spite of some overcooked burgers) but it has evolved to the point of notoriety and success that makes it one step away from a Rachel Ray visit. So, thinking about whether or not this should be enough to revoke GNR status, I put it to myself this way:

What if every restaurant on the GNR list achieved the same level of success that Kuma's did? Or even half the restaurants?

Sure, we'd all be thrilled for the owners, happy for our great city, and proud of ourselves for being part of it all. But the GNR list would read like a Metromix guide, a "what's hot", "where to go if you're hip" list of restaurants. Exactly what this list is trying to rally against.

Not renewing Kuma's GNR is not a revocation of status but a graduation for them. Personally, I like how this line of thinking protects the GNR list from irrelevance.

But, in this line of thinking I have a hard time with the "popularity alone" question. If Kuma's wasn't popular and you could stroll in at any time for a burger and beer, would we be having this discussion? I doubt it. We'd still want to champion their spirit, uniqueness, and food.

This makes it hard to separate Kuma's from Hot Doug's in my mind. There is no better example than a spot that has evolved through a city's consciousness more than Doug's. I remember when it was empty. I remember when a brief mention in the local media was a big deal for him. Now, national television coverage seems old hat for Doug's.

Both of these places are linked in my mind: they're the hip joints that are a little far west (gasp!) that take familiar foods and dress them up fancy. They have character and charm and good food. Everyone knows about them, the lines are very long. It almost feels like a privilege to eat there.

If the big, national media and two-hour lines of tourists and college kids is The Academy Awards of restaurant ownership, Kuma's and Hot Doug's have won Best Picture. The GNRs are the Independent Spirit Awards and we should move on.

Best,
Michael

I haven't been to Kuma's in about a year, but I used to be a very frequent customer. The crowds have kept me away, as has the fact that the food isn't always awesome.

That said, I fully support renewing this GNR award. To me, at its core Kuma's is still as it was. It's an eclectic place staffed by inked heavy-metal lovers who care passionately about food, beer, and service with a smile. Sure, I wish I could still belly up to the bar on a random Tuesday evening and chat about the relative hop levels of various IPA's with a bartender who could not possibly look more different than the people I usually hang out with. With apologies to the no-politics rule, I'll suggest that Kuma's is the Barack Obama of the Chicago bar scene. It has brought people from widely disparate lifestyles together, and helped us realize that our common interests in meat and alcohol are more important than whatever divides us.

Whatever changes have been brought about by Kuma's popularity, I don't think there is any denying that it is still a special place that resonates with a whole lot of LTHers. It certainly still resonates with me, even though I don't make it there very often.

Re-reading the GNR award text at the top of this thread, I fail to see how or where Kuma's has stopped being Kuma's in the past two years. They continue to put out inventive burgers, many of which are truly stellar (I'm thinking of you, Lair Of the Minotaur). The fact that ever more people are lining up at 11am to get in speaks to their continued excellence. If anything, it's easier to get a table here than at other GNR's, notably Schwa.

Their calamari remains the best I've ever had, and their macaroni and cheese and daily soups are always a treat. It's a shame these items are often passed over in favor of a burger, but they're there, waiting to be eaten. I really applaud their decision to seek out new fries when they noticed consistency issues (something which the Paramount Room, as one example, seems unwilling to do). In my own experience, I've never had an improperly cooked burger, anything less than friendly, efficient service. The Honey 1 thread demonstrates that consistency isn't necessarily an issue when it comes to GNR's, but rather that there exists a possibility of a brilliant meal. Kuma's can still deliver on that possibility.

Smoque has gotten national attention and has awful lines (not as awful, but still). Same thing with Burt's Pizza. As far as the packed to the gills atmosphere and loud music, plenty of other GNR's don't have the most comfortable settings, either. Something like Maxwell Street (admittedly, an extreme example here) could be accused of the same.

I know I threw out a lot of other GNR's, some up for renewal, some not, in a thread about Kuma's. I just want to see the same criteria applied across the board (at least, as best we can when we're talking about such a subjective and even emotional subject as great food! ).

Sorry, but I'm not persuaded. I don't think that these comparisons make your case.

I really don't have a strong opinion about whether a restaurant can be good/popular and graduate from GNR status (as several earlier posters have discussed). All I'm saying is that I'm not convinced that other GNRs' imperfections means that Kuma's should remain a GNR.

Unlike the many other restaurants you've listed, Kuma's can involve waiting an hour or two outside in the cold or crammed into a small space. Calling ahead to Burt's or making a few calls to Schwa doesn't compare. At both, when I arrive, I know what the game plan is going to be -- I'm going to be fed, and quickly. The inconvenience of making a few phone calls doesn't compare to the inconvenience of standing and waiting for a table. I've only been to Smoque once, on a Saturday, and there was no line. And, you admit that Smoque isn't as bad as Kuma's.

You also know what the game plan is going to be at Maxwell Street -- it can be hot and crowded and seating is limited. But, that's the appropriate atmosphere -- Maxwell Street wouldn't be Maxwell Street if it were clean and tidy and had running water. You may call Maxwell Street an extreme example -- but, I don't find anything about Maxwell Street uncomfortable.

I agree about Paramount Room's strange unwillingness to crispify their fries. Perhaps they shouldn't be a GNR, either.

I've been to Kuma's twice. The only reason I went a second time was because of the many glowing reviews. Perhaps I'd caught them on a bad day the first time. But, no, they still didn't have my first choice beer and the burger patty still disappointed. Heck, I had a tastier burger at Marcus Samuelsson's spot in Macy's food court.

Bottom Line -- I don't want to wait over an hour crammed into a small space or out in the cold for a mediocre burger. Even if there wasn't a wait, I still wouldn't return. Kuma's is not on my personal GNR list.

Ronna

Well, I think I can see when it stopped being a relaxed, funky neighborhood bar where you could just pop in and have a beer...

Again, it's not that it's declined-- although I think it's a different place, certainly, than it was when nobody'd heard of it. I just think, do people really need LTHForum's help finding it at this point? Does the ever-growing list need to have places everybody knows about? Should LTH be sending people to places where they have to wait 3 hours when it could be sending them to places that need the business? Those questions may, in fact, not really have anything to do with whether Kuma's itself is still good or not so good, but they have a lot to do with whether the GNR list is useful or not according to its stated principles, which specifically reference "lesser-known" places.

As used in the GNR Guidelines, the word purpose was meant as a synonym for "the reasons for which it is used", not goal or principle. All of those are valid definitions and the English language is an imperfect tool so the misunderstanding is understandable.

It is completely up to the members of LTHForum as to whether the popularity of any place should preclude it from being a GNR. It would not be in keeping with the spirit or the letter of the guidelines to try to tell the members that popularity should, or should not be taken into account.

I believe there is some precedent for places losing the GNR designation because success has changed them, but there are also ample precedents for places that became very popular remaining GNRs. It seems to depend on the place.

We look forward to reading more about what people like or don't like about Kuma's whether they post here or on other threads. But please do not feel that the GNR program dictates or even suggests that only unpopular places can be GNRs. That decision is entirely yours.

d
for the GNRs

The distinction between goals, purposes and reasons achieves a subtlety perhaps lost on me, but in case that last post is misunderstanding me, I think there's a case to be made that citywide popularity and fame are things one could use to decide whether or not it's worth calling a place a GNR-- and Dickson's own guidelines go a long way to support that point of view in acknowledging that "lesser-known" places are the heart of the program.

Regardless of how you feel about that issue, my feeling is that that same citywide popularity and fame have changed the Kuma's experience, and it isn't the same place that was named two years ago, and isn't the kind of place that would get named now-- for all that there's still a lot that's good about it.

For me the most salient quote about Kuma's of the last year was this one:



Amen, brother. Time to give it a rest and find something new.

that leads me to quite the opposite conclusion. If the thread keeps jumping to the top "yet again", that is pretty clear evidence that it still resonates with the forum, and is therefore the epitome of what the GNRs are all about.

(edited to note that I hope what I said doesn't mean that Five Guys will get the award next)