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#1
Posted January 13th 2010, 3:55pm
LTH,
On the heels of potential ecological disaster and a Great Lakes regional legal battle to keep Illinois in check to prevent invasive Asian carp from accessing the lakes via the Illinois River, some have suggested that consuming this ravenous invader may be a partial solution and apparently there is already a market for the fish and plenty of others who are already cooking it up (note: path of research and links credited to the Reader's Food Chain blog's Whet Moser). I am ready to catch a couple of these, cut them up, and experiment with cooking their flesh. As an amateur-at-best fisherman, I have a few questions for the fishing experts out there: is it possible to catch them this time of year, would I need a fishing license (especially since it seems there is such an abundance and potential catastrophe at stake because of them), and where on the Illinois River do you reckon would be the best place to catch them. I have done research on how to catch them- when they're lively they seem to jump right into your boat or are easily caught by net. I have read techniques using dissolving lure material to catch carp in the winter too, but any fishing tips would be greatly appreciated. My intent is in earnest and with quite a bit of determination, if not somewhat naive. Does anyone else have experience catching and eating these fish? Anyone interested?
Thanks,
Eric
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#2
Posted January 13th 2010, 4:09pm
Marseilles, down by the dam. Ottawa - Starved Rock.

There is even talk of putting a commercial fishery down here to process the fish, and send them off to folks who may want to eat them.
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#3
Posted January 13th 2010, 4:23pm
If the goal is to reduce or eliminate these fish, then creating new demand for them seems counterproductive.
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#4
Posted January 13th 2010, 4:24pm
Darren72 wrote:If the goal is to reduce or eliminate these fish, then creating new demand for them seems counterproductive.


the demand/market already exists, and good luck ridding the river of them
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#5
Posted January 13th 2010, 4:39pm
Yes, I realize that. An implication of the Trib article is that eating more of these fish may be a good way to get them out of the river. What I attempted to point out is that if more people want to eat these fish, this will increase the number of them, not decrease it.
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#6
Posted January 13th 2010, 4:47pm
Jefe wrote:LTH,
I have a few questions for the fishing experts out there: is it possible to catch them this time of year, would I need a fishing license (especially since it seems there is such an abundance and potential catastrophe at stake because of them), and where on the Illinois River do you reckon would be the best place to catch them. I have done research on how to catch them- when they're lively they seem to jump right into your boat or are easily caught by net. I have read techniques using dissolving lure material to catch carp in the winter too, but any fishing tips would be greatly appreciated.

1/4 stick of TNT oughta do 'er...
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#7
Posted January 13th 2010, 4:49pm
Darren72 wrote:If the goal is to reduce or eliminate these fish, then creating new demand for them seems counterproductive.

You think? Judging by some other fish that are currently in demand (or were in the past) - bluefin tuna, Patagonian toothfish (a.k.a. Chilean sea bass), orange roughy, swordfish, red snapper, skate - creating demand is an excellent way to reduce or eliminate them.

Give them a trendy name ("green snapper"? "river bass"?) & pull some strings to get them to start appearing in upscale restaurants & fancy cooking magazines/shows and I bet they'll be endangered in no time :P
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#8
Posted January 13th 2010, 4:52pm
Khaopaat wrote:creating demand is an excellent way to reduce or eliminate them.

Reduce, yeah. Eliminate, no. Eat all you want (and I think that's a good idea), but that by itself won't prevent them from wreaking havoc in the Great Lakes.
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#9
Posted January 13th 2010, 5:32pm
Khaopaat wrote:
Darren72 wrote:If the goal is to reduce or eliminate these fish, then creating new demand for them seems counterproductive.

You think? Judging by some other fish that are currently in demand (or were in the past) - bluefin tuna, Patagonian toothfish (a.k.a. Chilean sea bass), orange roughy, swordfish, red snapper, skate - creating demand is an excellent way to reduce or eliminate them.

Give them a trendy name ("green snapper"? "river bass"?) & pull some strings to get them to start appearing in upscale restaurants & fancy cooking magazines/shows and I bet they'll be endangered in no time :P


I think the problem is that, if they became popular, there will be an increase in fish farming. The examples you listed are mainly fish that cannot be profitably farmed and so there is overfishing in public waters.
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#10
Posted January 13th 2010, 7:11pm
the redneck fishing tournament is in bath ,il . ithink june or july around the 19th. where the fish jump in the boat
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#11
Posted January 13th 2010, 8:11pm
nr706 wrote:
Khaopaat wrote:creating demand is an excellent way to reduce or eliminate them.

Reduce, yeah. Eliminate, no. Eat all you want (and I think that's a good idea), but that by itself won't prevent them from wreaking havoc in the Great Lakes.


Create demand... in Japan!
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#12
Posted January 13th 2010, 9:34pm
Jefe wrote: ... would I need a fishing license (especially since it seems there is such an abundance and potential catastrophe at stake because of them), and where on the Illinois River do you reckon would be the best place to catch them. I have done research on how to catch them- when they're lively they seem to jump right into your boat or are easily caught by net.


Jefe, if you are over 16, you need a fishing license whether or not you catch any fish, even invasive species - fortunately, they are easily purchased online at the IDNR website, and they're cheap to boot.

I've read a lot about the regular native carp (never caught one, even by accident) they like the things you'd expect a scavenger to like: liver, blood, grains, dough (I've heard about chumming the water with corn for carp fishing) I'm sure you've googled, there's a host of information out there on regular carp fishing, even the occasional tournament.
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#13
Posted January 14th 2010, 8:31am
Khaopaat wrote:Give them a trendy name ("green snapper"?



so true... :lol:

the green movement folks would gobble em' up for sure.
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#14
Posted January 14th 2010, 8:55am
Actually I heard they are trying to rename them "silverfin"
since they are also called silver carp

I think I saw them for sale at fresh farms in Niles for 99 cents a pound.
(it may have been a diff variety of carp, but it looked the same to me...)
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#15
Posted January 14th 2010, 11:33am
irisarbor wrote:Actually I heard they are trying to rename them "silverfin"
since they are also called silver carp

I think I saw them for sale at fresh farms in Niles for 99 cents a pound.
(it may have been a diff variety of carp, but it looked the same to me...)

There was a story about promoting and cooking the "silver fin" aka Asian carp as food on the other day on All Things Considered.
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#16
Posted January 14th 2010, 1:57pm
That's probably where I hear it, EvA...
Thanks for the link- it was a good story!
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#17
Posted January 14th 2010, 2:08pm
I read something recently (in a cookbook, IIRC) about them needing to circulate in clean fresh water for a few days before harvesting to minimize their "muddy" flavor. I wonder if that's being done with carp currently being sold in Midwest.
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#18
Posted January 17th 2010, 1:03am
Upthread there were comments about fish farms. The Asian carp was unintentionally introduced via fish farms:

Invasive species: Asian Carp and the Great Lakes wrote:How did Asian carp get so close to the Great Lakes?
Two species of Asian carp -- the bighead and silver -- were imported by catfish farmers in the 1970's to remove algae and suspended matter out of their ponds. During large floods in the early 1990s, many of the catfish farm ponds overflowed their banks, and the Asian carp were released into local waterways in the Mississippi River basin.


Non-native fish in the Great Lakes such as smelt and alewives arrived via ships arriving from foreign locaitons emptying their bilge tanks.

Regards,
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#19
Posted January 18th 2010, 12:11pm
Thanks Cathy. This is the point I was try to make - that anything that increases demand for these fish - either demand for "wild" fish or farmed - will inevitably increase the number that can potentially enter the Great Lakes.
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#20
Posted January 18th 2010, 10:06pm
The Asian carp are filter feeders that makes them very unlikely candidates for fish farming. It would be difficult to come up with enough plankton to feed them. They were imported to control algae in ponds where other fish (probably catfish) were being raised. The Arkansas fish farmers deserve a lot of blame but not all of it. The fish were also imported to control algae in municipal water treatment facilities.

A few people are claiming success at angling for the Asian carp but, again, the filter feeding lifestyle makes that difficult.
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#21
Posted January 19th 2010, 4:38am
Cathy2 wrote:Upthread there were comments about fish farms. The Asian carp was unintentionally introduced via fish farms:

Invasive species: Asian Carp and the Great Lakes wrote:How did Asian carp get so close to the Great Lakes?
Two species of Asian carp -- the bighead and silver -- were imported by catfish farmers in the 1970's to remove algae and suspended matter out of their ponds. During large floods in the early 1990s, many of the catfish farm ponds overflowed their banks, and the Asian carp were released into local waterways in the Mississippi River basin.


Non-native fish in the Great Lakes such as smelt and alewives arrived via ships arriving from foreign locaitons emptying their bilge tanks.

Regards,


Another explanation for how smelt were introduced to the Great Lakes.
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#22
Posted January 19th 2010, 5:00pm
David,

Thanks!

Did you notice the time stamp on the smelt article: March 6, 1944.

Regards,
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#23
Posted January 19th 2010, 5:01pm
On today's (Tuesday, January 19th) WGN Evening News starting at 5:00pm, we're showing a piece about an Asian Carp tasting session. I haven't seen the finished segment, so I'll know what it's about when you do.

Buddy
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#24
Posted January 19th 2010, 5:41pm
Hi,

I wonder how well Asian carp holds up.

In Europe, it is far preferable to buy regular carp live and kill it just as cook. They claim the taste degrades quickly after. Asian markets often keep regular carp live in tanks until the customer selects it.

In Moscow long ago, I bought several carp live. They swam in my bathtub with the fish harvested for dinner over several days.

Regards,
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#25
Posted January 22nd 2010, 5:14pm
An article on the Ottawa, IL. paper blames the carp on the scarcity of bald eagles on the river, guess they are eating the things that the things the eagles eat, eat.

Cant open that Carp processing facility too soon imho. Sell those frozen carp filets, and deep fried carp stix to china. :D
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#26
Posted February 3rd 2010, 8:14pm
Asian Carp....The other OTHER white meat. :lol:
New fishing sport looking for memebers in Illinois....
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Drinkin' on duh river game...wack A fish! How many can U smash?
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#27
Posted February 4th 2010, 8:23am
great pics cbot,

Im surprised PETA hasnt stepped in yet to ban boating on the river, and to go after those folks clubbing those poor, innocent jumping carp. :P
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#28
Posted February 4th 2010, 8:05pm
jimswside wrote:Im surprised PETA hasnt stepped in yet to ban boating on the river, and to go after those folks clubbing those poor, innocent jumping carp. :P

From what I recall from an episode of 60 Minutes, "those jumping carb clubbing those poor innocent folks boating on the river" would be closer to the truth.
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#29
Posted February 6th 2010, 10:58pm
Why didnt everyone get all upity when they hit the Illinois River????Now that they are ready to invade the Great Lakes,everyone jumps into action.Not enough "wealthy" people on the Illinois????
Anywho,they are some scary things.I was out fishing a walleye tournament with my son a couple years ago and the amount and size of these fish made me to resort to stuffing him under the dashboard of our boat.Its cool to watch it on t.v. but when you are there on the spot,its not cool.
Why not eat Asian Carp?????People are dumb enough to eat and pay for Tilapia......poisioned in Florida because they are an invasive species down there.
Why not call them Freshwater Swordfish and charge $12.99 a lb????????? :P :P
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#30
Posted February 7th 2010, 11:06am
shooter mcgavin wrote:Why didnt everyone get all upity when they hit the Illinois River????Now that they are ready to invade the Great Lakes,everyone jumps into action.Not enough "wealthy" people on the Illinois????
Anywho,they are some scary things.I was out fishing a walleye tournament with my son a couple years ago and the amount and size of these fish made me to resort to stuffing him under the dashboard of our boat.Its cool to watch it on t.v. but when you are there on the spot,its not cool.
Why not eat Asian Carp?????People are dumb enough to eat and pay for Tilapia......poisioned in Florida because they are an invasive species down there.
Why not call them Freshwater Swordfish and charge $12.99 a lb????????? :P :P

How do you shut down the Mississippi river? It is far easier to close or restrict a canal. However since Asian carp DNA has already been found in Lake Michigan, it may already be a losing battle.

Since you have a deep familiarity with the Illinois River, how much commercial fishing goes on there? On the Great Lakes there is considerable commercial fishing. There are many states looking at the conditions of the Great Lakes who have common and competing interests.

I would be interested on your take on Illinois River food, such as: fried turtle, fried fish sandwiches (is it from Buffalo fish?) and duck served with pears. I have found and tried fried turtle in your region. I haven't yet been to a bar serving this unique fried fish sandwich. I hear they cut and fry it where the bones easily separate out. Only heard of the duck with pear from a Wall Street Journal article.

On a separate note, Supreme Lobster has been practicing on Asian Carp to prep it to minimize bones. They think they succeeded in doing so. If you want to eat one without fishing it yourself, contact Supreme Lobster.

Regards,
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