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Pappy Van Winkle 15-year [& other fine American whiskey]

Pappy Van Winkle 15-year [& other fine American whiskey]
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  • Post #61 - November 29th, 2011, 9:19 pm
    Post #61 - November 29th, 2011, 9:19 pm Post #61 - November 29th, 2011, 9:19 pm
    The bourbon fellow at Binny's on Grand Ave (between Franklin St & Wells St) said maybe 1st week of December, but more likely mid-December. He says he never tells anybody they have it, they don't put it on the shelf, you gotta talk to him for a while first, and he doesn't respect those who hoard Pappy. :shock:
  • Post #62 - November 29th, 2011, 9:41 pm
    Post #62 - November 29th, 2011, 9:41 pm Post #62 - November 29th, 2011, 9:41 pm
    kathryn wrote:The bourbon fellow at Binny's on Grand Ave (between Franklin St & Wells St) said maybe 1st week of December, but more likely mid-December. He says he never tells anybody they have it, they don't put it on the shelf, you gotta talk to him for a while first, and he doesn't respect those who hoard Pappy. :shock:

    My Binny's guy tells me that he's getting 1 12-bottle case and that over 48 customers have already asked for it. Obviously, it will never hit the shelf at this particular store. He also told me that some customers have become downright aggressive in their efforts to secure a bottle. He didn't elaborate nor did I ask him to. When we discussed the fact that this would be the last-ever release of the 15-year, his one word comment on the matter was a very defiant "good." :D

    =R=
    Why don't you take these profiteroles and put them up your shi'-ta-holes? --Jemaine & Bret

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #63 - November 29th, 2011, 9:56 pm
    Post #63 - November 29th, 2011, 9:56 pm Post #63 - November 29th, 2011, 9:56 pm
    from another board....

    If you listen to the podcast w/ Julian Van Winkle ( http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwin ... inkle.html ) somewhere in the 13-14 minute mark he talks about the 15 year no longer being S-W.


    Binny's should have the stuff this week

    I take care of my friends at Binny's!
  • Post #64 - November 29th, 2011, 10:25 pm
    Post #64 - November 29th, 2011, 10:25 pm Post #64 - November 29th, 2011, 10:25 pm
    mhill95149 wrote:I take care of my friends at Binny's!

    Natch :wink:

    =R=
    Why don't you take these profiteroles and put them up your shi'-ta-holes? --Jemaine & Bret

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #65 - November 30th, 2011, 10:43 am
    Post #65 - November 30th, 2011, 10:43 am Post #65 - November 30th, 2011, 10:43 am
    mhill95149 wrote:from another board....

    If you listen to the podcast w/ Julian Van Winkle ( http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwin ... inkle.html ) somewhere in the 13-14 minute mark he talks about the 15 year no longer being S-W.


    Binny's should have the stuff this week

    I take care of my friends at Binny's!


    I really appreciate the link to the podcast. While information earlier in this thread indicated that the 15 would still be pre-Buffalo Trace bourbon, I now understand that the bottles of 15 that is due is coming out of the Buffalo Trace distillery. Am I understanding that correctly? As Julian says, the "new" 15 year is apparently amazing and it's only a romantic notion that makes the S-W product more desirable, from a taste perspective.
    best,
    dan
  • Post #66 - November 30th, 2011, 11:28 am
    Post #66 - November 30th, 2011, 11:28 am Post #66 - November 30th, 2011, 11:28 am
    danimalarkey wrote:
    mhill95149 wrote:from another board....

    If you listen to the podcast w/ Julian Van Winkle ( http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwin ... inkle.html ) somewhere in the 13-14 minute mark he talks about the 15 year no longer being S-W.


    Binny's should have the stuff this week

    I take care of my friends at Binny's!


    I really appreciate the link to the podcast. While information earlier in this thread indicated that the 15 would still be pre-Buffalo Trace bourbon, I now understand that the bottles of 15 that is due is coming out of the Buffalo Trace distillery. Am I understanding that correctly? As Julian says, the "new" 15 year is apparently amazing and it's only a romantic notion that makes the S-W product more desirable, from a taste perspective.


    I believe Julian III has said that he won't put Pappy's picture on the bottle unless it is S-W product. When the new Buffalo Trace produced line is released, it will have new labels and likely a new naming convention. As the Van Winkle deal with BT was signed in 2002, it's a bit early to be seeing a 15 year Van Winkle product from BT. That said, I agree that some of the wheated bourbons coming out of BT right now (like the 2011 William Larue Weller) are as good as an S-W bourbon I've tried.

    ETA: Some confusion may be added by the fact that all of the Van Winkle lines are bottled at Buffalo Trace, regardless of where the product was produced.
  • Post #67 - November 30th, 2011, 1:17 pm
    Post #67 - November 30th, 2011, 1:17 pm Post #67 - November 30th, 2011, 1:17 pm
    score!
    Image
  • Post #68 - November 30th, 2011, 8:54 pm
    Post #68 - November 30th, 2011, 8:54 pm Post #68 - November 30th, 2011, 8:54 pm
    Where??? I want some of the 15 year!!!
  • Post #69 - December 2nd, 2011, 11:29 am
    Post #69 - December 2nd, 2011, 11:29 am Post #69 - December 2nd, 2011, 11:29 am
    I just saw some 20 at the Lake Zurch Binny's
    For $99.99
    847-438-1437

    No shipping



    Image
    pappy van winkle 20 by Mel Hill Photography, on Flickr
  • Post #70 - December 2nd, 2011, 5:14 pm
    Post #70 - December 2nd, 2011, 5:14 pm Post #70 - December 2nd, 2011, 5:14 pm
    20 yr available at the Binny's at Dempster and Milwaukee. You have to ask for it...not on the shelf. They are out of 15.

    ETA: As seen above, 20yr is $99.99 at Binny's, but the 15yr has been marked up to $59.99.
  • Post #71 - December 4th, 2011, 10:05 am
    Post #71 - December 4th, 2011, 10:05 am Post #71 - December 4th, 2011, 10:05 am
    Some folks I know with some pretty good cred in the bourbon tasting world including one who once secured his own private barrel of Van Winkle are sceptical upon tasting the '11 release that it is Stitzel Weller juice (or more correctly the term for Stitzel Weller should be DSP KY 16). In addition to Preston's podcast comment creating questions, there is the fact that the '11 release is identified in a code on the bottle as being bottled in '11 whereas the '10 release was still from the '09 bottling. However, Julian Van Winkle did state in writing just one year ago in 11/2010 that "In the last couple of years, we bottled up a 2-3 year supply of 15, 16 year to sell as 15 year Pappy. We still have some 20 year S/W in barrels to bottle as 20 year." Note though that in that comment he didn't specify if this bottled 15, which is really 16 years old, was S/W, as he did with the comments on the 20 in the barrels. Julian also has previously stated that the 12 year Lot B changed over in 2005 from SW/DSP 16 distillate to Bernheim/DSP 1, so if the 15 is no longer from DSP 16 it is probably more from Bernheim than Buffalo Trace. But...you want more confusion...the Buffalo Trace Distillery, then known as the Ancient Age distillery, distilled wheater formula barrels in '93 (there are photos of the barrels) which was labelled on the barrels as Old Fitzgerald and the Van Winkles would have access to those barrels too.

    Unfortunately the Van Winkle 15 has turned into the Beanie Baby craze with resulting price gouging from certain retailers and the e-bay reselling also hurts. I will also relate that in a true blind tasting among several prominent bourbon enthusiasts, who know their stuff, that the newest release of the Old Weller Antique 107 proof, with no age stated on the label beat out the Van Winkle 15 in preference. I personally think the latest release of the Old Rip 107 is great stuff and much less hassle.
  • Post #72 - December 11th, 2011, 1:47 am
    Post #72 - December 11th, 2011, 1:47 am Post #72 - December 11th, 2011, 1:47 am
    Well, I went down to the sacred store
    Where I'd found the bourbon years before
    And I didn't see the Pappy on display...

    (But he did tell me he'd get a bottle for me on Thursday if I emailed him and his boss.)
  • Post #73 - December 12th, 2011, 1:35 pm
    Post #73 - December 12th, 2011, 1:35 pm Post #73 - December 12th, 2011, 1:35 pm
    jsagoff wrote:Well, I went down to the sacred store
    Where I'd found the bourbon years before
    And I didn't see the Pappy on display...

    (But he did tell me he'd get a bottle for me on Thursday if I emailed him and his boss.)

    I also went down to this store this past Wednesday in search of 15 or, preferably, the 20. He told me they had a list this year, and every bottle was spoken for.

    This whole reservation list business is really pissing me off, and making me broke - every time I hear this stupid crap from some liquor store manager, I end up buying a bottle or two of something else to take the edge off. Yesterday it was Ransom Old Tom and Campari...a couple of negronis had me saying "Pappy Van WHO?" ;)
  • Post #74 - December 13th, 2011, 9:45 am
    Post #74 - December 13th, 2011, 9:45 am Post #74 - December 13th, 2011, 9:45 am
    They did have a hidden bottle of 20-year for $125, which I think is extravagant.
  • Post #75 - December 13th, 2011, 10:26 am
    Post #75 - December 13th, 2011, 10:26 am Post #75 - December 13th, 2011, 10:26 am
    jsagoff wrote:They did have a hidden bottle of 20-year for $125, which I think is extravagant.

    I specifically asked if they had any 15 - "nope, those all sold out really quickly". Okay, fair enough. I then asked if they had any 20 - "we're all sold out of that too". So basically he lied to me.

    I won't be going back to that store...not that their ridiculous prices ($34 for Makers Mark?!) are much encouragement.
  • Post #76 - December 16th, 2011, 9:46 am
    Post #76 - December 16th, 2011, 9:46 am Post #76 - December 16th, 2011, 9:46 am
    This has gotten ridiculous. Got my bottle for $60, but they were keeping it a) behind the counter where no one could see it and b) hidden within a case of scotch. Good luck, everyone.
  • Post #77 - December 16th, 2011, 11:27 am
    Post #77 - December 16th, 2011, 11:27 am Post #77 - December 16th, 2011, 11:27 am
    Is the 12yr worth the $50 price tag?
  • Post #78 - December 16th, 2011, 11:39 am
    Post #78 - December 16th, 2011, 11:39 am Post #78 - December 16th, 2011, 11:39 am
    ziggy wrote:Is the 12yr worth the $50 price tag?

    In a word, yes. It used to run around $45, so that's not a bad price, given the availability. If I could find it, I'd buy a case or 2.

    =R=
    Why don't you take these profiteroles and put them up your shi'-ta-holes? --Jemaine & Bret

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #79 - December 16th, 2011, 11:55 am
    Post #79 - December 16th, 2011, 11:55 am Post #79 - December 16th, 2011, 11:55 am
    ziggy wrote:Is the 12yr worth the $50 price tag?

    We used to happily pay $45 to keep a bottle around for some neat sipping, in past years when it was readily available. However, I wouldn't beat myself up to find a bottle of it now that it's gotten lumped into the 15- and 20-year craziness and is hard to come by (at least in the city, in my experience) - I feel like there are too many great options available in the $40-50 range to waste time jumping through hoops for it.
  • Post #80 - December 16th, 2011, 1:11 pm
    Post #80 - December 16th, 2011, 1:11 pm Post #80 - December 16th, 2011, 1:11 pm
    kl1191 wrote:I believe Julian III has said that he won't put Pappy's picture on the bottle unless it is S-W product. When the new Buffalo Trace produced line is released, it will have new labels and likely a new naming convention. As the Van Winkle deal with BT was signed in 2002, it's a bit early to be seeing a 15 year Van Winkle product from BT.


    My understanding of the above has flipped.

    This review by Sour Mash Manifesto, which was re-tweeted by Kris Comstock the Brand Manager at Buffalo Trace, says this regarding Pappy 15:

    [R]ecently Preston Van Winkle confirmed that the 2011 release was 100% Buffalo Trace produced bourbon and no longer S-W whiskey.


    He's got a new post from yesterday that reviews the 2011 release and compares it to the (S-W) 2009 release.

    I'm on the record as saying that some of the wheated bourbon to come out of BT recently is some of the best I've ever tasted. That said, I'm surprised (and on some level not) that they made a switch from S-W to BT product without a change in bottling, especially considering some of the earlier comments made by JIII on that topic.
    Last edited by kl1191 on December 16th, 2011, 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  • Post #81 - December 16th, 2011, 1:13 pm
    Post #81 - December 16th, 2011, 1:13 pm Post #81 - December 16th, 2011, 1:13 pm
    ronnie_suburban wrote:
    ziggy wrote:Is the 12yr worth the $50 price tag?

    In a word, yes. It used to run around $45, so that's not a bad price, given the availability. If I could find it, I'd buy a case or 2.

    =R=


    I'll respectfully disagree. I think the W.L. Weller 12 year is at least as good (to my understanding, it's the same recipe, aged in the same warehouses & locations), while being cheaper and much more widely available.
  • Post #82 - December 16th, 2011, 1:29 pm
    Post #82 - December 16th, 2011, 1:29 pm Post #82 - December 16th, 2011, 1:29 pm
    kl1191 wrote:
    ronnie_suburban wrote:
    ziggy wrote:Is the 12yr worth the $50 price tag?

    In a word, yes. It used to run around $45, so that's not a bad price, given the availability. If I could find it, I'd buy a case or 2.

    =R=


    I'll respectfully disagree. I think the W.L. Weller 12 year is at least as good (to my understanding, it's the same recipe, aged in the same warehouses & locations), while being cheaper and much more widely available.

    Can't argue with that -- and I have the better part of a case of the WLW 12 put away -- but flavorwise, the VW Lot B 12-yr just has a certain something that I really love and it's long been a sentimental favorite of mine.

    =R=
    Why don't you take these profiteroles and put them up your shi'-ta-holes? --Jemaine & Bret

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #83 - January 12th, 2012, 2:13 pm
    Post #83 - January 12th, 2012, 2:13 pm Post #83 - January 12th, 2012, 2:13 pm
    I'm halfway through my bottle, and I find I'm not enjoying it nearly as much as I used to. What's gone wrong?
  • Post #84 - January 12th, 2012, 3:34 pm
    Post #84 - January 12th, 2012, 3:34 pm Post #84 - January 12th, 2012, 3:34 pm
    jsagoff wrote:I'm halfway through my bottle, and I find I'm not enjoying it nearly as much as I used to. What's gone wrong?


    What happens when you drink some cheap stuff now? Does that taste ok?
    i used to milk cows
  • Post #85 - January 12th, 2012, 4:11 pm
    Post #85 - January 12th, 2012, 4:11 pm Post #85 - January 12th, 2012, 4:11 pm
    It still tastes like it used to, but the PVW 15 no longer makes me shudder.
  • Post #86 - January 12th, 2012, 6:49 pm
    Post #86 - January 12th, 2012, 6:49 pm Post #86 - January 12th, 2012, 6:49 pm
    Somebody stole your Pappy and put in Old Crow.
    i used to milk cows
  • Post #87 - May 30th, 2012, 9:35 am
    Post #87 - May 30th, 2012, 9:35 am Post #87 - May 30th, 2012, 9:35 am
    Noticed that after an absence of some time, Old Rip Van Winkle reappeared at Binny's in the fancy locked whiskey case, still modestly priced but limited to one per customer. We surmised that the stocks had been decimated by folks grabbing anything with "Van Winkle" in the name.
  • Post #88 - May 30th, 2012, 1:59 pm
    Post #88 - May 30th, 2012, 1:59 pm Post #88 - May 30th, 2012, 1:59 pm
    Vitesse98 wrote:Noticed that after an absence of some time, Old Rip Van Winkle reappeared at Binny's in the fancy locked whiskey case, still modestly priced but limited to one per customer. We surmised that the stocks had been decimated by folks grabbing anything with "Van Winkle" in the name.

    In case demand was not strong enough already, the most recent release of 15-year just received a score of 96/100 from John Hansell . . .

    Sometime recently, the source of this whiskey changed from the now defunct Stitzel-Weller distillery to Buffalo Trace. No matter. This whiskey is still the best of the Van Winkle line.

    Whisky Advocate's #1 whisky of the summer issue

    =R=
    Why don't you take these profiteroles and put them up your shi'-ta-holes? --Jemaine & Bret

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #89 - May 31st, 2012, 10:14 am
    Post #89 - May 31st, 2012, 10:14 am Post #89 - May 31st, 2012, 10:14 am
    Buffalo Trace produces a whole gamut of Bourbon's and has, as Posted assumed the production of Old Rip van Winkle spirits.
    But the agreement at the best could only have 10 year old or maybe 12 for sale. The 15 and 21 year old currently offered would have had to come from original stocks.
    I had a blind tasting of 10 and 21 Old Rip van Winkle. Also included were other Buffalo Trace Bourbons:
    Old Weller 107 proof $21.99/750ml
    Anchient Age 80 proof $10.49/l
    10 yr Winkle 107 proof $30.99/750ml
    21 yr Winkle (brought by a member of the tasting for somewhat shy of $200)
    Four individuals tasted. The blind tasting was conducted by another person.
    The palats of three of the tasters would be considered knowledgable in the Bourbon area, the fourth average.
    All were able to identify the 21 Winkle by its complexity. The most knowledgable identified all correctly.
    The Weller and the 10 Winkle were harder to tell apart and of course the Ancient Age was easy to tell because of its proof.
    So the tasting was not really about which was best and preference.
    Money being no object, all would purchase the 21 Winkle or maybe not?
    My own feeling is that the Ancient Age is a very good Bourbon for the money and when my stocks of the other Buffalo Trace Bourbons run out, I can see that vying for my drinking alongside Gentleman Jack.
    We did not open the 12 Winkle but at $47.99, there probably won't be another. 15 Winkle was not available for purchase. I am not going to seek it out either.
    Buffalo Trace makes a range of Bourbons in the $50/bottle range but I did not purchase them because of the price.
    My objective was to determine if Bourbons coming from the same distillery could be purchased at the lower end(Ancient Age) and compare with the intermediate (Weller) and upper end (10 Winkle).
    The 21 Winkle, since not produced by Buffalo Trace at the present, was just a pleasant addition.
    My thoughts about the varied range of Buffalo Trace products is that thier must be some consistency in the ingrediants and my question was whether that consistancy would produce similar Bourbons. Of course age, barrel material and factors I'm not privy to, would cause differences but are the diferences significant?
    Conclusions: 21 Winkle is very good and distinctive because of age and pedigree.
    Weller and 10 Winkle are comparable.
    Ancient Age is very good and a good value.
    -Dick
  • Post #90 - May 31st, 2012, 11:58 am
    Post #90 - May 31st, 2012, 11:58 am Post #90 - May 31st, 2012, 11:58 am
    Dick,

    Are you referring to the 23-year? I've never seen a 21-year.

    If you like the Ancient Age, try the Ancient Ancient Age. It's lovely and a great value.

    =R=
    Why don't you take these profiteroles and put them up your shi'-ta-holes? --Jemaine & Bret

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain

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