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BBQ Rib-athon 2006 - June 17th

BBQ Rib-athon 2006 - June 17th
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  • BBQ Rib-athon 2006 - June 17th

    Post #1 - June 5th, 2006, 10:39 pm
    Post #1 - June 5th, 2006, 10:39 pm Post #1 - June 5th, 2006, 10:39 pm
    Several years ago, during the early LTH era of a series of regular rib-athons, the idea was proposed to bring an all-natural, free-range, organically raised pig to one of the the better BBQ-ers in the city, and then do a comparative taste-off, against standard commercial pork product. Healthy, active, fresh-air breathing, root-digging, contented pig versus indoor-confined, feed-lot pig. Which would taste better? Do the conditions under which the animals were raised matter, most importantly for flavor?

    Slow Food Chicago, in its continuing series of neighborhood walking tours based on their Guide to Chicago, has organized another rib-athon of sorts, to explore several of the best BBQ shacks in the city. Leading the tour will be local BBQ celebrity and Slow Food member, Gary Wiviott.
    See BBQ by Wiviott

    The tour will begin on the far south side, with a stop at the new Uncle John's BBQ, on E. 69th Street. Pitmaster Mack Sevier and his wife Shirley just recently opened Uncle John's as owner/operators. Mack has been a fixture on the local scene for years, most notably as the force behind the quality BBQ at Barbara Ann's, where his proprietary-recipe hot-links achieved an almost legendary status among BBQ aficionados.

    The next stop will be Barbara Ann's BBQ on S. Cottage Grove. Barbara Ann's has consistently been listed among the top BBQ shacks in the city, and is always favored for their rib tips.

    The third and final stop on the South Side will be the historically renowned Lem's on East 75th, one of the oldest continuously family-run BBQ houses in the city, and often rated as the best BBQ in Chicago. We'll taste, discuss, and hear a little history about the father of Chicago BBQ and original founder of Lem's, Miles Lemons.

    Along the way, Gary will talk about the similarities and differences in cooking styles among all of the BBQ shacks visited, and will also discuss the general history of Chicago BBQ, with its roots in the Mississippi delta.

    The tour will finish with a grand finale taste-off at a Forum (and Slow Food) favorite, Honey 1 BBQ on the north side. For the occasion, Slow Food Chicago has ordered ribs and shoulder from a free-range, organic pig, happily raised on the all-organic farm of Larry and Marilyn Wettstein in Eureka, IL. Honey 1 owner and pitmaster Robert Adams will smoke these, and we'll do a side-by-side comparative tasting of free-range organic versus standard commercial pork product.

    The south side tour by caravan will be limited to 25 people. The final taste-off at Honey 1 BBQ, will accommodate an additional 20 to 25 people. You may RSVP for the entire tour, or just for the finale at Honey 1.

    DATE Saturday, June 17th
    TIME & LOCATION
    First stop Uncle John's BBQ, 337 E. 69th, at Calumet, 11:00 a.m
    Last stop Honey 1 BBQ, 2241 N. Western Ave., 2:45 p.m.
    COST for the entire tour $32
    COST just for the taste-off at Honey 1 $22
    RESERVE and pre-pay at http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/5486

    At Honey 1, beer and pale ale will be generously provided by Goose Island Brewery.

    Slow Food Chicago will work on arranging carpools for the south side tour.

    Map Link to 3 South Side BBQ locations
    http://tinyurl.com/pfyhk
    Map Link to Honey 1
    http://tinyurl.com/efwtc

    Additional information and carpool contact: tucucina@yahoo.com
  • Post #2 - June 14th, 2006, 5:04 pm
    Post #2 - June 14th, 2006, 5:04 pm Post #2 - June 14th, 2006, 5:04 pm
    I'm sorry, though not surprised, to see that the tour is sold out. If any additional spots should open up, I hope Gary will let us know.
  • Post #3 - June 14th, 2006, 6:52 pm
    Post #3 - June 14th, 2006, 6:52 pm Post #3 - June 14th, 2006, 6:52 pm
    berryberry wrote:I'm sorry, though not surprised, to see that the tour is sold out. If any additional spots should open up, I hope Gary will let us know.

    Berryberry,

    There are still a few spots open for the Honey 1 comparative tasting part of the BBQ Tour.

    Should be a fun and, hopefully, interesting afternoon.

    Enjoy,
    Gary
    --

    COST just for the taste-off at Honey 1 $22
    RESERVE and pre-pay at http://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/5486

    The tour will finish with a grand finale taste-off at a Forum (and Slow Food) favorite, Honey 1 BBQ on the north side. For the occasion, Slow Food Chicago has ordered ribs and shoulder from a free-range, organic pig, happily raised on the all-organic farm of Larry and Marilyn Wettstein in Eureka, IL. Honey 1 owner and pitmaster Robert Adams will smoke these, and we'll do a side-by-side comparative tasting of free-range organic versus standard commercial pork product.

    At Honey 1, beer and pale ale will be generously provided by Goose Island Brewery.
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #4 - June 15th, 2006, 1:31 pm
    Post #4 - June 15th, 2006, 1:31 pm Post #4 - June 15th, 2006, 1:31 pm
    Any idea how long people will be at Honey 1 for the taste-off? I forgot the Mods v. Rockers show at Delilah's is from 12-4 on Saturday and I've got a bike that I have to enter... but hoping I could swing by after if people will still be at Honey 1? Assuming said bike doesn't blow up on the way there...

    grace
  • Post #5 - June 16th, 2006, 9:49 am
    Post #5 - June 16th, 2006, 9:49 am Post #5 - June 16th, 2006, 9:49 am
    There are still a few spots open for the Honey 1 comparative tasting part of the BBQ Tour.


    Thanks for letting me know. I'll be there, along with r2g.
  • Post #6 - June 18th, 2006, 10:30 pm
    Post #6 - June 18th, 2006, 10:30 pm Post #6 - June 18th, 2006, 10:30 pm
    LTH,

    The Slow Food BBQ Tour was interesting and fun, I know I enjoyed myself tremendously. Joel Smith did a great job with organization, ReneG dazzled with his knowledge of Chicago history.

    Best moment of the day was when James Lemons, Pitmaster Emeritus, was speaking to our group outside of Lem's. He received a number of sincere compliments on his BBQ and became ever so slightly misty eyed.

    James Lemons Pitmaster Emeritus Lem's BBQ
    Image

    Barbara Ann is a joy, she's a lively and engaging speaker, Mack at Uncle John's kindly let the entire group, 4 at a time, go back and view his pit, and Robert Adam's Sr. was his usual incredibly nice, engaging self.

    Robert Adam's was also nice enough to not only smoke up his own BBQ for our group, but 4-racks of spare ribs and 2 pork shoulders from Wettstein organic farms for a comparative tasting.

    Lovely day, thanks to all who attended.

    Pictures and info may be found here

    Enjoy,
    Gary
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #7 - June 19th, 2006, 9:06 am
    Post #7 - June 19th, 2006, 9:06 am Post #7 - June 19th, 2006, 9:06 am
    Thanks Joel, I mean Alfonso XIV, and Gary for setting this up. While I only visited the last stop, Honey 1, I heard the whole day was great (and heard I actually missed the best of the ribs :wink: ). Still, with my interest in local foods, I've longed waited for this talked about pork-off and I was very glad you all arranged it.

    Before we went, I told my family that I worried greatly that there would be no difference, or worse, the commercial pork would be better. I can safely report, however, that was not the case. There was a definate richness to the organic, local pork a result of it being much fattier. More importantly, it had a much more interesting, deeper and more complex flavor. One of my daughters, who barely eats meat, found that yes, when pork is $8/lb, she does like it. 8)

    A couple of side notes. First, Honey1's pitmaster, Robert Adams explained that, while this was a taste-off, he did not cook the pork the same. The fattier pork required much more time on the smoker, at lower tempatures--which may have attributed some to its richer product. Second, I asked him if the organic pork was like the pork he grew up with, and he said the organic was closest to his grandfather's pork. In other words, modern commercial pork is now two generations removed from the real thing.

    Anyways, thanks again, it was a fun event and fun to see the Slow Food People.

    Rob
    Think Yiddish, Dress British - Advice of Evil Ronnie to me.
  • Post #8 - June 19th, 2006, 9:42 am
    Post #8 - June 19th, 2006, 9:42 am Post #8 - June 19th, 2006, 9:42 am
    Pardon me while I derail this a little to talk about natural pork, only tangentially related to the really great event talked about above.

    I was fortunate enough to get some natural pork from the legendary Bob in Georgia a while back, including a couple of chunks of pork belly with which to make bacon.

    As soon as I started handling it it was obvious this was superior stuff-- the fat on the pork belly had the silkiness and the snow-white clean color of leaf lard. What was also obvious about it was that it was twice as thick as a commercial pork belly-- the fat layers and the meat layers were both much thicker. You can sort of see in this photo of it cooking, though it was more obvious raw:

    Image

    As for taste... sublime. All my homemade bacon is really, really good-- I say that not to toot my own horn, on a certain level it's good the way all home-baked bread is good, and more people should be making their own, trust me it's easy and soooo good-- but this stuff took it up another level in terms of clean, pure pork flavor.

    Unfortunately this kind of pork is proving extremely elusive to get on a regular basis. I met the farmer who supplied the pork for yesterday's event and the one thing he didn't want to sell me was pork bellies-- because it's so easy to make bacon, and it becomes a high profit, easy to sell item for farmers like him as a result.

    It's ironic that pork-- which probably gains more in flavor from being raised naturally than almost anything other than certain fish, and which has had a very good book devoted to that subject-- is much less far along that path than beef or chicken, where it arguably matters less. You can go into Whole Foods and get free range chicken and Amish beef, but the pork is the same old as anywhere else. (It's also ironic that Whole Foods just got all Wholier than thou about live lobster in their stores, yet they have no problem, apparently, with the awful conditions and environmental degradation of industrial pork production, which are also responsible for why commercial pork has that funky taste.)

    So I'm sold on real pork, naturally-raised pork, but it's tough to find by means less expensive than ordering it off the menu at Blackbird. This BBQ tour sounds like a great chance to try what you should be eating regularly-- but probably won't get another chance to try for some time.
    Watch Sky Full of Bacon, the Chicago food HD podcast!
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  • Post #9 - June 19th, 2006, 10:34 am
    Post #9 - June 19th, 2006, 10:34 am Post #9 - June 19th, 2006, 10:34 am
    Mike G wrote:You can go into Whole Foods and get free range chicken and Amish beef, but the pork is the same old as anywhere else. (It's also ironic that Whole Foods just got all Wholier than thou about live lobster in their stores, yet they have no problem, apparently, with the awful conditions and environmental degradation of industrial pork production, which are also responsible for why commercial pork has that funky taste.)

    I hate to get away from the topic, but I believe that your statement that Whole Foods does not have a problem with the conditions in which pigs are raised is untrue. See the following from Whole Foods' own website:

    http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/product ... dards.html

    http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/issues/ ... e/pigs.pdf

    It appears as if Whole Foods has very strict guidelines in places with respect to the treatment of animals, including pigs.
    Last edited by BR on June 19th, 2006, 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  • Post #10 - June 19th, 2006, 10:34 am
    Post #10 - June 19th, 2006, 10:34 am Post #10 - June 19th, 2006, 10:34 am
    Mike G wrote:So I'm sold on real pork, naturally-raised pork, but it's tough to find by means less expensive than ordering it off the menu at Blackbird.

    Fox & Obel carries (at least some) Gunthorp Farms pork, which, judging from this description, I am guessing would qualify as naturally-raised. (As an aside, there is a definitional problem with what's considered "naturally-raised." From Mike G's description above, I think he is referring to pastured/free-range pigs that are on natural diets without industrial feed, antibiotics, etc. Whole Foods claims its pork is all natural but in its definition, that just means no anti-biotics, hormones, animal by-products in feed without regard to whether the pigs are penned or pastured.) I'm not clear on what all cuts they carry at F&O, but I recently had some bone-in loin chops from Gunthorp that I purchased there that were excellent and not ridiculously expensive (I believe $5.99/pound).
  • Post #11 - June 19th, 2006, 10:54 am
    Post #11 - June 19th, 2006, 10:54 am Post #11 - June 19th, 2006, 10:54 am
    Yeah, I was using "naturally-raised" as very imprecise shorthand. Thank you for the correction, BR. What's clear from the Whole Foods guidelines is that they've somewhat ameliorated the worst aspects of industrialized pork:

    Whole Foods wrote:Pigs

    No antibiotics — ever
    No animal byproducts in feed
    No gestation crates
    Sows provided freedom of movement in farrowing (birthing) pens
    Bedding required to satisfy natural rooting instincts


    It's more humane. However, it's not clear that it noticeably improves flavor. For that you need animals who root around in the open eating something like acorns (in Spain) or peanuts (traditionally in the South). So Whole Foods is still apparently a long ways from the pasture-raising that, for instance, Niman Ranch (a brand which sets certain standards for pork it will accept from other farmers) insists on:

    Niman Ranch wrote:Our hogs are allowed to run, roam and root. They are weaned at seven weeks, never given antibiotics, and are fed only the finest grains and natural ingredients.

    Taste
    Because our hogs live most of their lives outdoors, they need an extra thick layer of back fat for insulation in the hot Midwest summers and the cold winters. The fat also brings with it superior marbling, flavor, tenderness and palatability.


    Read Pig Perfect for more....
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    New episode: Soil, Corn, Cows and Cheese
    Watch the Reader's James Beard Award-winning Key Ingredient here.
  • Post #12 - June 19th, 2006, 11:07 am
    Post #12 - June 19th, 2006, 11:07 am Post #12 - June 19th, 2006, 11:07 am
    HI,

    My understanding on organic pigs isn't so much how they are raised, but access to breeds not available in the mass production market. The pork typically available has been selected for characterisics like leaner meat preferred by today's consumer, rate of growth and disease resistance to name a few.

    I have a friend who raises her own chickens. She tried several breeds until she found one whose taste and characteristics were to her liking.

    I am getting more and more interested in making bacon one of these days.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #13 - June 19th, 2006, 11:13 am
    Post #13 - June 19th, 2006, 11:13 am Post #13 - June 19th, 2006, 11:13 am
    It's all those things, but a key point made in Pig Perfect is that pigs don't really alter fats they deposit in their flesh, they store them more or less as they are. So it makes a lot of difference to final flavor if they eat acorns, peanuts, or their own waste.
    Watch Sky Full of Bacon, the Chicago food HD podcast!
    New episode: Soil, Corn, Cows and Cheese
    Watch the Reader's James Beard Award-winning Key Ingredient here.
  • Post #14 - June 19th, 2006, 1:17 pm
    Post #14 - June 19th, 2006, 1:17 pm Post #14 - June 19th, 2006, 1:17 pm
    I had seen the postings for the event and knew that Saturday would be a busy day for me so I did not RSVP.

    I happened to be in the area on Saturday and thought I would drop in and say Hi at Honey I.

    I went to the counter to order a pulled pork sandwich (my favorite) and was told there would be a 20 to 30 minute wait due to a large party in the dining room.

    I was on a schedule and had to go (still had to find a sandwich somewhere) and left without saying Hi. Not antisocial but a stop to say hi would of taken the better part of a half hour. :) Not bad if I was eating but...

    It looked like you all were having a good time, lively banter from the dining room, several people taking pictures of the smoker, employees and food.

    Next time...
  • Post #15 - June 21st, 2006, 5:52 pm
    Post #15 - June 21st, 2006, 5:52 pm Post #15 - June 21st, 2006, 5:52 pm
    Unfortunately, tickets for the BBQ tour were sold out before I had a chance to jump on board, but I was able to join the tasteoff at Honey 1 on Saturday. The event was attended primarily by Slow Food members, but LTH was well represented by Rene_G, stevez, swine_dining, vital_information (plus Mrs. Info and the little 411s), r2g, myself, and of course G_Wiv. We partook of two preparations of pork, pulled pork shoulder and spareribs. I had a clear preference for the organic pulled pork, which I found more flavorful and porky. The commercial pork tasted more like, well, the other white meat. I didn’t detect much of a difference in taste between the two breeds of ribs. However, the commercial ribs had more meat, which gave them an edge.

    I think all the LTHers agreed that the differences between the commercial and the organic pork were not dramatic. But perhaps the differences were too subtle to be detected by the human nose and taste buds? The group was intrigued by the canine taste test r2g and I conducted in our carnitas tasteoff, as reported in r2g’s post
    here. It was quickly agreed that the commercial vs. organic tasteoff should be taken to the next level: BBQ Smackdown, Doggy Style.

    G_Wiv prepared small packages with a few ounces of each type of pulled pork. R2g and I then returned to my place, where we executed a thoroughly sciencey experiment. First, we engaged the participation of my dog, Lupe (aka, “the decider”). This part was easy.

    Image

    I took a bit of each type of pork, placing one in each hand. I then held my hands far apart and allowed Lupe to take her pick.

    Image

    I must say that she considered her choice for about 3 seconds, looking (and smelling) from one hand to the other. Then she went for the organic pork. A winner!

    Image

    Wait just a minute. This is the same method we used in the carnitas confrontation. However, in that post David Hammond raised the objection that perhaps the dog simply favors one hand over the other. To test this, I next put identical dog biscuits in each hand and repeated the test. She went for the same hand again, although with much less consideration this time. I then repeated the pork test, but this time switched hands. Again, the dog went for the left hand—the one that originally held the organic pork, but this time held commercial. She spit the commercial pork out immediately. No, not really, but that would have been a great end to the test. In fact, she ate it without complaint. So Lupe apparently favors the left hand.

    Not to be outsmarted by a dog, we improvised a new test. This time, I placed two pieces of pork next to each other on the floor a few feet away from Lupe.

    Image

    She approached and ate the organic pork, then promptly devoured the commercial as well. I then repeated the test, switching the position of the commercial and organic pieces. Again she chose the organic first (and again mopped up the commercial as well). By this time, we were running low on pork. Although, in the name of science, Lupe expressed a willingness to keep at it all night if need be, we ended the experiment.

    So, what can we conclude? (1) Lupe showed a slight preference for the organic pork, although it could have been due to chance. (2) She showed a clear preference for the left hand. (3) Dogs like pork.

    Despite the obstacles, we think Doggy Style tasting has promise. R2g is planning to develop a machine of some sort that allows a dog to push one of two levers to receive portions of pork (or other tasting material). Left alone with enough time, and pork, the dog’s preference should become evident. In fact, I am ordering one of these prok-dispensing machines for my own personal research. Another approach is to recruit multiple dogs to increase our statistical power. This would require an LTH Doggy Style Tasting Team—dispatched at a moment’s notice to culinary trouble spots to settle tasting disputes. Next, a Dog-A-Thon?
  • Post #16 - June 22nd, 2006, 8:43 am
    Post #16 - June 22nd, 2006, 8:43 am Post #16 - June 22nd, 2006, 8:43 am
    Way, way back, a long time ago when the Green City Market was still being held in the alley behind the Chicago Theatre on State Street, I was fortunate to meet and become friends with Greg and Lei Gunthorpe. The only product they could initially sell was their polish sausage. I would stop by regularly each week to get more. When Greg first started selling his pork to Chicago restaurants, my house was occasionally the last stop before he headed home to Indiana, sometimes arriving around midnight before his trek home. We used to keep Gunthorp pork exclusively in the house. The flavor is different from commercial pork, and we really liked it.

    Greg was also involved in a natural foods farming group and hosted what they called "Field Day" out at his farm. I had the pleasure of attending a field day with my family, listening to the farmers lecture about their methods, and picking up lots of organic and naturally raised vegetables while I ate roasted Gunthorp pig. We were also treated to a tour of the farm. Lei loaded up my cooler with pork for the freezer before we drove home.

    I still keep in touch sporadically with them and am hoping to make a road trip on a weekend to pick up more pork this summer. Greg and Lei are really interesting to talk to and live in Amish country. They have succeeded in doing what they set out to do and I give them a lot of credit for putting out a quality, delicious natural product.

    Suzy
    " There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life."
    - Frank Zappa
  • Post #17 - June 22nd, 2006, 6:52 pm
    Post #17 - June 22nd, 2006, 6:52 pm Post #17 - June 22nd, 2006, 6:52 pm
    berryberry wrote:Despite the obstacles, we think Doggy Style tasting has promise. R2g is planning to develop a machine of some sort that allows a dog to push one of two levers to receive portions of pork (or other tasting material). Left alone with enough time, and pork, the dog’s preference should become evident. In fact, I am ordering one of these prok-dispensing machines for my own personal research. Another approach is to recruit multiple dogs to increase our statistical power. This would require an LTH Doggy Style Tasting Team—dispatched at a moment’s notice to culinary trouble spots to settle tasting disputes. Next, a Dog-A-Thon?

    Maybe I should try it with my cat, who, in an exceedingly chowist manner, now prefers starving himself to eating anything that doesn't ping his deliciousness meter. Even something he ate enthusiastically the previous day.
  • Post #18 - June 22nd, 2006, 9:01 pm
    Post #18 - June 22nd, 2006, 9:01 pm Post #18 - June 22nd, 2006, 9:01 pm
    LAZ: If your kitties are anything like my kitties, they would not have been disappointed with either of the pork preparations. I try to keep the cats on their "gourmet" dry food and hope they don't sink their precious, pointy little teeth into anything else for fear that they'll find their "gourmet" food, not very "gourmet" any more. I can tell you a story about some very stealthy prosciutto theft that may have permantly tainted their palates (with yumminess), but that would probably be a bit off topic here. :P

    On a more general note: As others have stated in this post, I found both the commercial and organic pork to be quite good. The differences stood out most with the shredded pork shoulder. It definitely tasted more porky, complex, soft and flavorful. However, I preferred the commercial ribs. I found them to be meatier and fattier (in a good way). Thus, I found their overall texture superior. In terms of flavor, I found both pork more comparable when it came to the ribs. I don't know how much of that can be attributed to the BBQing, the way the pork was cut, or the pork itself. If I was given a choice of those ribs, I'd go commercial.

    As always, it was nice to see again and to meet for the first time some veteran LTHers. With an admission fee of $22 to support a good cause and all you can eat Honey-1 cooked pork, Goose Island beer (and root beer), and some wine: for me, both pork were winners.

    I certainly felt like a winner. All other things being equal (which they are not) I can't say I'd feel the same way if I would have had to fork over a substantially greater amount of $$$ to get the organic vs commercial pork at Honey-1.
  • Post #19 - June 23rd, 2006, 8:07 pm
    Post #19 - June 23rd, 2006, 8:07 pm Post #19 - June 23rd, 2006, 8:07 pm
    berryberry wrote:So, what can we conclude? (1) Lupe showed a slight preference for the organic pork, although it could have been due to chance. (2) She showed a clear preference for the left hand. (3) Dogs like pork.
    :D :D :D

    you just fixed my hangover. seriously tho, i have read many-a-times dogs should not be fed pork due to the toxicity in pork fat and other possible allergic reactions.
  • Post #20 - June 23rd, 2006, 9:48 pm
    Post #20 - June 23rd, 2006, 9:48 pm Post #20 - June 23rd, 2006, 9:48 pm
    TonyC wrote:
    you just fixed my hangover. seriously tho, i have read many-a-times dogs should not be fed pork due to the toxicity in pork fat and other possible allergic reactions.


    You're confusing pork with chocolate. :?
    Steve Z.

    “Only the pure in heart can make a good soup.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven
  • Post #21 - July 1st, 2006, 9:02 am
    Post #21 - July 1st, 2006, 9:02 am Post #21 - July 1st, 2006, 9:02 am
    berryberry wrote:R2g and I then returned to my place, where we executed a thoroughly sciencey experiment. First, we engaged the participation of my dog, Lupe (aka, “the decider”).

    Image

    BerryBerry,

    I've been playing around with a new BBQ sauce recipe, have it down to three possible candidates. I would like to retain the services of Lupe 'The Decider'. I realize she is in high demand and am fully prepared to pay a, hopefully nominal, fee, though I am unable to provide a Mercedes stretch doggy kennel for transportation, as per her contract.

    Looking forward to working with Lupe, please convey my regards.

    Enjoy,
    Gary
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #22 - July 2nd, 2006, 9:25 am
    Post #22 - July 2nd, 2006, 9:25 am Post #22 - July 2nd, 2006, 9:25 am
    Gary,
    I am prepared to offer you access to Lupe's services under one condition; namely that I, as her manager, get to taste your sauces as well, preferably attached to some of your famous ribs.

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