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Vegans and Fake Meat

Vegans and Fake Meat
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  • Vegans and Fake Meat

    Post #1 - November 5th, 2004, 7:24 pm
    Post #1 - November 5th, 2004, 7:24 pm Post #1 - November 5th, 2004, 7:24 pm
    I know this is off-topic, but why do so many vegetarian and vegan cooks insist on using fake meat? I don't understand why someone would want to use TVP to make a burger, or tofu to make a turkey.

    Frankly, the many mostly or all vegetarian/vegan restaurants in the city do a much better job of figuring out what to do with their ingredients than do most vegan chefs.

    I just don't get it. The raw materials are exceptional. Elevate them. Don't try to turn soy into meatloaf or cheese. Just cook the vegetables properly.

    Sheesh.

    rant over.
    Ed Fisher
    my chicago food photos

    RIP LTH.
  • Post #2 - November 5th, 2004, 7:35 pm
    Post #2 - November 5th, 2004, 7:35 pm Post #2 - November 5th, 2004, 7:35 pm
    Perhaps as a source of protein or to resemble the mouthfeel of meat?
  • Post #3 - November 6th, 2004, 12:27 am
    Post #3 - November 6th, 2004, 12:27 am Post #3 - November 6th, 2004, 12:27 am
    I know this is off-topic, but why do so many vegetarian and vegan cooks insist on using fake meat?


    I think with products like this, who could resist?

    Image
  • Post #4 - November 6th, 2004, 1:31 am
    Post #4 - November 6th, 2004, 1:31 am Post #4 - November 6th, 2004, 1:31 am
    The other thing I don't get about vegans is why they keep trying to pronounce it "vee-gan," which I've never understood. They eat vegetables, not "veegetables." Does anyone know how this quirk of language developed?
  • Post #5 - November 6th, 2004, 6:48 am
    Post #5 - November 6th, 2004, 6:48 am Post #5 - November 6th, 2004, 6:48 am
    If you want the taste and texture of meat, eat meat.
    Steve Z.

    “Only the pure in heart can make a good soup.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven
  • Post #6 - November 6th, 2004, 7:38 am
    Post #6 - November 6th, 2004, 7:38 am Post #6 - November 6th, 2004, 7:38 am
    gleam wrote:I know this is off-topic, but why do so many vegetarian and vegan cooks insist on using fake meat? I don't understand why someone would want to use TVP to make a burger, or tofu to make a turkey.

    I just don't get it. The raw materials are exceptional. Elevate them. Don't try to turn soy into meatloaf or cheese. Just cook the vegetables properly.


    Ed,

    I'm with you; I think tofurky is demeaning to both tofu and turkey.

    Why does this food exist?

    I imagine this scenario. Husband is meatboy; wife is vegan; to please (or, rather, equally displease) both, they decide to eat soysage so that each can feel like he or she is getting the meal she wants.

    Of course, neither really is.

    Hammond
  • Post #7 - November 6th, 2004, 8:20 am
    Post #7 - November 6th, 2004, 8:20 am Post #7 - November 6th, 2004, 8:20 am
    Although people become vegans for various reasons does not mean they don't want to hive that texture.I have been told you can use mushrooms for that texture but that does not work for me.I am not a vegan but will not judge them.Yet!
  • Post #8 - November 6th, 2004, 12:16 pm
    Post #8 - November 6th, 2004, 12:16 pm Post #8 - November 6th, 2004, 12:16 pm
    Hi,

    Just this last summer, I went to Fabulous Noodles with Dickson and other Chowist friends. For the appetizer, we were presented with a Crispy Skin Chicken as well as a Vegetarian Chicken. Usually, you have one or the other though rarely side-by-side. It was more than amusing to find the fake Chicken tasting more chickeny than the real thing.

    &&&

    My sister is married to an Indian, from India, who grew up vegetarian for religious reasons. Since he arrived to the United States, he had vegetarian meals where fake meat was served. Those who knew both sides of the equation, were always commenting how the fake tasted just as good as the real. Eventually he hopped the fence and began eating meat because he found the fake stuff pretty good.

    This may be a rare case of fake veggie stuff meat convincing someone to eat the real deal. Or at least it is the only one I know of.

    &&&

    Maybe 5 years ago, the editor (or was it publisher) of Vegetarian Times announced after more than 20 years as a vegetarian, he was re-introducing meat into his lifestyle. I don't read Vegetarian Times and learned this from general news. Yes, eating meat creates headlines!
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #9 - November 6th, 2004, 12:42 pm
    Post #9 - November 6th, 2004, 12:42 pm Post #9 - November 6th, 2004, 12:42 pm
    Cathy2 wrote:This may be a rare case of fake veggie stuff meat convincing someone to eat the real deal. Or at least it is the only one I know of.


    C2,

    Bigger news might be a meat lover who, tasting TVP steak, switched to the fake. I'm not sure if there's any record of that ever happening. :lol:

    Hammond
  • Post #10 - November 6th, 2004, 1:22 pm
    Post #10 - November 6th, 2004, 1:22 pm Post #10 - November 6th, 2004, 1:22 pm
    The moral aspect of fake meat for vegans always has troubled me.

    Is it fair to compare a conscientious vegan who nonetheless likes her food to look and taste like animal flesh to, say, J Edgar Hoover?


    maybe not
  • Post #11 - November 6th, 2004, 2:32 pm
    Post #11 - November 6th, 2004, 2:32 pm Post #11 - November 6th, 2004, 2:32 pm
    Obviously we're not attracting any vegetarians to respond.
    I'm really not fond of anything 'fake' such as TVP ground meat or veggie bacon. It doesn't taste right and doesn't seem "moral" to pretend to eat meat, if you've really got an objection to it. I've never had a gardenburger, but it just never appealed to me.

    Tofu as tofu is just fine for me, although I'm not sure I could appreciate a Ma Pwo Do Fu without ground pork for depth. Seitan (a fungal processed protein), to me seems a lot like a typical dry boneless/skinless chicken breast. To me that seems better: it is what it is, and it's not pretending to be something else.

    I can truly enjoy meatless dishes (although I tend toward cheese, which the vegans won't) without having to eat pretend meat. I'm not ready to give up meat completely by any means (and I'll never give up butter!), but it certainly seems that a healthy, varied diet could be had without meat. Getting fast food or even mainstream restaurants to participate seems tough (steamed vegetable platter? give me a break).
  • Post #12 - November 6th, 2004, 6:34 pm
    Post #12 - November 6th, 2004, 6:34 pm Post #12 - November 6th, 2004, 6:34 pm
    I'm not vegan or even vegetarian, although I was a strict vegetarian for a few years in high school and college. I started trying fake meat products when I joined Weight Watchers, because a lot of them are points-friendly. I have to say that, while most fake meats taste very blah to me, at this point I'm very content to eat certain kinds of veggetable burgers and could pretty much give up meat burgers in their favor. I enjoy both the vegetable burgers that pretend to be meat and the ones that are more vegetable-y. But in that one sense, I am an example of someone who's tried the fake and switched.
  • Post #13 - November 6th, 2004, 9:39 pm
    Post #13 - November 6th, 2004, 9:39 pm Post #13 - November 6th, 2004, 9:39 pm
    bibi rose wrote:But in that one sense, I am an example of someone who's tried the fake and switched.

    Wait, so does that mean you switched for better taste, or did you switch to keep your diet in line (meaning, the taste was acceptable enough)? The difference is quite meaningful to me.

    Some vegans have no choice, whether due to religious convictions or allergies to food. (I have known both.) As a lover of meat, I deeply sympathize with them.
  • Post #14 - November 7th, 2004, 11:21 am
    Post #14 - November 7th, 2004, 11:21 am Post #14 - November 7th, 2004, 11:21 am
    fastfoodsnob wrote: Wait, so does that mean you switched for better taste, or did you switch to keep your diet in line (meaning, the taste was acceptable enough)? The difference is quite meaningful to me.


    Somewhere in between. I like some vegetable burgers just as well as meat ones and will certainly go on eating them when I'm no longer trying to lose weight. However, I made my post partly in jest, and I don't think this really proves anything about the desirability of fake meat. The main attraction of the burgers, to me, is not that they pass for real meat and some of my favorites are the ones that don't taste much like meat.
  • Post #15 - August 29th, 2018, 11:19 am
    Post #15 - August 29th, 2018, 11:19 am Post #15 - August 29th, 2018, 11:19 am
    Protecting the sanctity of meat, Missouri cracks down on soy burgers

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opin ... ft07a-4gp1
    "At a formal dinner party, the person nearest death should always be seated closest to the bathroom." George Carlin
  • Post #16 - August 29th, 2018, 1:41 pm
    Post #16 - August 29th, 2018, 1:41 pm Post #16 - August 29th, 2018, 1:41 pm
    Dave148 wrote:
    Protecting the sanctity of meat, Missouri cracks down on soy burgers

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opin ... ft07a-4gp1


    So animal eaters in the Show Me state can’t figure out when they are buying non-animals and need a law to help them because “meatless” confused them?

    I guess we may as well just replace words with pictures on packaging.

    I think there is a similar issue with cauliflower “rice” and I think the rice folks just won a lawsuit about that also.
    Ava-"If you get down and out, just get in the kitchen and bake a cake."- Jean Strickland

    Horto In Urbs- Falling in love with Urban Vegetable Gardening
  • Post #17 - August 29th, 2018, 2:40 pm
    Post #17 - August 29th, 2018, 2:40 pm Post #17 - August 29th, 2018, 2:40 pm
    pairs4life wrote:
    Dave148 wrote:
    Protecting the sanctity of meat, Missouri cracks down on soy burgers

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opin ... ft07a-4gp1


    So animal eaters in the Show Me state can’t figure out when they are buying non-animals and need a law to help them because “meatless” confused them?

    I guess we may as well just replace words with pictures on packaging.

    I think there is a similar issue with cauliflower “rice” and I think the rice folks just won a lawsuit about that also.


    The dairy industry is also in on the game. They are going after the use of the word “milk” as it relates to non-dairy beverages, ie. almond “milk” & soy “milk”, etc.
    Steve Z.

    “Only the pure in heart can make a good soup.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven
  • Post #18 - August 29th, 2018, 4:02 pm
    Post #18 - August 29th, 2018, 4:02 pm Post #18 - August 29th, 2018, 4:02 pm
    So.....given that The O.P. was from 14 years ago-when
    I used a Handspring TREO as opposed to my iPhone 7-
    a lot has changed- in the world of technology.

    We not live in a world where "Food Scientists" have analyzed the mouth-feel
    of a Grilled Meat Burger- from the taste- to the texture -to the crispy yummy bits-
    and have engineered a way to make that from -"peas".

    Gotta-Problem-With-Dat? :twisted:

    All Cholesterol- comes from Animal's.
    If I can have no Cholesterol in my diet- and still get off on being "adventurous " in my food consumption-
    what's it matter to anyone- but my mouth- my reduced belly- and my MOST EXCELLENT Blood Work Numbers?
    :? :roll:

    Today- there's a Chicken Adobo- being offered at Vegan Grill- in Lakeview and their other locations- that "tastes-like-Adobo"...(not as good as the one I usta make with Pork and Chicken-but- still- pretty-damn-good.)
    ImagePlant-Based Filipino “Chicken” Adobo-w/Green beans & cucumber salad on brown rice! Yummmmmmm! by R. Kramer, on Flickr
    There's a lot to be said for a Plant-based-Diet,
    and trust me- the sight of a Pile-o-Carnitas- still gets me aroused- as do
    the smells of Honey 1-BBQ, but- knowing- that I can eat a Salad- or a range of Middle Eastern/Persian food with out meat-
    as well as having a "Chicken Sandwich-
    ImageKalish- 1313 West Wilson Avenue.,Chicago,IL by R. Kramer, on Flickr
    just broadens my ability to enjoy one of my great passions in Life-
    Food!

    In The Words of the late great Julia Child-
    Bon Apetit!

    nuff-said.
  • Post #19 - August 30th, 2018, 4:48 pm
    Post #19 - August 30th, 2018, 4:48 pm Post #19 - August 30th, 2018, 4:48 pm
    I never understood fake meat. If you miss the taste and texture and juicy goodness of animal flesh, then why be vegetarian? Just eat your vegetables and quit trying to pretend they are anything else. The fact is that the human animal is omnivorous. Personally, I think that modern man eats too much meat, too often. The notion of having meat with every meal was probably an outgrowth of the 1950s when thick ass steaks were considered a status symbol and cigarettes were considered a healthy way to relax. I, myself, limit my consumption of flesh (especially of the red variety). I will even occasionally eat vegetarian patties, but only the ones that look and taste like vegetables and do not pretend to be something they are not. There are however, occassions when I just need to chew on a chunk of animal muscle and feel that fatty bloody juice dribbling down my chin. There is no way a lentil meatloaf will ever satisfy that very human desire, so why play make believe?

    Remember when you could not buy yellow margarine in Wisconsin, in case it got confused with butter? A chunk of plastic wrapped hydrogenated white vegetable oil came with a little packet of yellow food coloring, in case one really needed to fool their family into thinking it was actually butter.
  • Post #20 - August 30th, 2018, 5:00 pm
    Post #20 - August 30th, 2018, 5:00 pm Post #20 - August 30th, 2018, 5:00 pm
    "why be vegetarian? Just eat your vegetables and quit trying to pretend they are anything else. "

    With that "logic" :? - then The Taliban would be
    the dominant Political Party in The US.
    I'll eat What-Ever-the F#CK-I -Wish/Want-to,
    and
    you my friend
    can mind your own business-
    Eat what you like- lemme eat what I like-
    and you can keep on buying Med's to lower your Cholesterol- from eating MEAT.
    https://www.heart.org/en/health-topics/cholesterol/about-cholesterol
  • Post #21 - August 30th, 2018, 6:29 pm
    Post #21 - August 30th, 2018, 6:29 pm Post #21 - August 30th, 2018, 6:29 pm
    H de A,
    When I use "you", I mean the general you. As to you personally, as you so eloquently put it, I don't give a F#@k what you eat. I must, however, point out a huge mistake in your science. Forgetting your absurd hyperbolic and illogical statement about the Taliban, the FACT is that cholesterol does not come from animals. It is produced by all cells in the human body. It is a triglyceride derived from fat,and is an essential nutrient. It is an important component of all celI memranes. Without it you would literally disintegrate. It is only in excess that it becomes unhealthy. All lipids, regardless of the source, produce cholesterol. I guarantee that if you consumed large quantities of coconut or corn oil, your blood triglyceride levels would be as high as if you ate a burger for every lunch. A fake chicken patty fried in vegetable oil produces as much cholesterol as a real chicken breast. Most of the fat comes from the frying process. I commend you for eating healthy. I simply do not and will not ever understand fake meat.
    Cholesterols and triglycerides are important fats (lipids) in the blood. Cholesterol is an essential component of cell membranes, brain and nerve cells, and bile, which helps the body absorb fats and fat-soluble vitamins.

    Don't take my dislike for fake meat personally. BTW my HDL/LDL levels are very healthy. I am 62 y.o. with a family history of heart disease and eat meat (in moderation).
    Most ingested cholesterol is esterified, and esterified cholesterol is poorly absorbed. The body also compensates for any absorption of additional cholesterol by reducing cholesterol synthesis.[10] For these reasons, cholesterol in food, seven to ten hours after ingestion, has little, if any effect on concentrations of cholesterol in the blood.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol
  • Post #22 - August 31st, 2018, 2:16 am
    Post #22 - August 31st, 2018, 2:16 am Post #22 - August 31st, 2018, 2:16 am
    d4v3 wrote:I simply do not and will not ever understand fake meat.


    1. Person grows up becoming accustomed to a certain taste.

    2. Person learns how that taste is produced in 21st century America, is horrified.

    3. A product comes along that allows person to enjoy an approximation of that taste while still being able to sleep at night.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Post #23 - August 31st, 2018, 6:58 am
    Post #23 - August 31st, 2018, 6:58 am Post #23 - August 31st, 2018, 6:58 am
    cilantro wrote:
    d4v3 wrote:I simply do not and will not ever understand fake meat.


    1. Person grows up becoming accustomed to a certain taste.

    2. Person learns how that taste is produced in 21st century America, is horrified.

    3. A product comes along that allows person to enjoy an approximation of that taste while still being able to sleep at night.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


    I could have written the OP about ten years ago, but, these days, maybe I've mellowed in my age, but I can actually see why fake meat products are popular, and even I eat them for the reasons above. For those of us who grew up eating lots of meat and want to ease out of a meat-heavy diet for personal, ethical, environmental, etc., reasons, it does provide a nice gateway for when we get that meat craving. I mean, sure, granted there is nothing better than a well-made and fresh falafel, but sometimes the Impossible Burger will scratch that itch that way no well-made vegetarian dish can.

    So fair enough. Many of the more long-term vegans I know aren't really into the fake meat, anyway, as it still reminds them of meat.
  • Post #24 - August 31st, 2018, 7:51 am
    Post #24 - August 31st, 2018, 7:51 am Post #24 - August 31st, 2018, 7:51 am
    David Hammond wrote:Bigger news might be a meat lover who, tasting TVP steak, switched to the fake. I'm not sure if there's any record of that ever happening. :lol:


    My father did (with a different fake meat), at least till he figured out he was somewhat gluten intolerant and the seiten (?sp) was causing gastric problems.

    --Carey
    --Carey
  • Post #25 - August 31st, 2018, 9:17 am
    Post #25 - August 31st, 2018, 9:17 am Post #25 - August 31st, 2018, 9:17 am
    cilantro wrote:
    d4v3 wrote:I simply do not and will not ever understand fake meat.


    1. Person grows up becoming accustomed to a certain taste.

    2. Person learns how that taste is produced in 21st century America, is horrified.

    3. A product comes along that allows person to enjoy an approximation of that taste while still being able to sleep at night.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


    +1. Yep.

    And I will add. Why does it even matter? If you like the taste of blood and muscle and someone else doesn't why do you care? If you like nuts in your cake and another one doesn't, why do you care? If you think ketchup is an abomination on a hot dog, but another likes it, okay I know I pushed too far with this audience on that one. :) :) :)
    Ava-"If you get down and out, just get in the kitchen and bake a cake."- Jean Strickland

    Horto In Urbs- Falling in love with Urban Vegetable Gardening
  • Post #26 - August 31st, 2018, 10:43 am
    Post #26 - August 31st, 2018, 10:43 am Post #26 - August 31st, 2018, 10:43 am
    There are several points that d4v3 (& gleam-The O.P.) make
    that I find objectionable:
    "I never understood fake meat. If you miss the taste and texture and juicy goodness of animal flesh, then why be vegetarian? Just eat your vegetables and quit trying to pretend they are anything else. The fact is that the human animal is omnivorous."


    OK- first off- if you don't understand something.....don't you care
    to be educated- and try to learn?
    I do.
    And- I find that generally-"Open-Minded"/Inquisitive/SMART People,
    generally do too.
    Often-by attempt to learn about something that perplexes them.
    Did you ever study comparative Religion(s)?
    Maybe - for those "against"-a certain Religion - say Islam,Judaism, or even Jain's or Sihks, based solely on what "others" observe (be it head-dress, or other outward displays/visible "tells") - it would behoove the less tolerant, to learn a little bit more, before being so intolerant of a belief.

    What- I'm saying- to The O.P. and d4v3.......Didja ever try an Impossible Burger at KUMA's? or have you ever grilled up a BEYOND Burger- and said, lemme see what that's all about? :?: Maybe- if ya did- that'd open your eyes- :wink:
    and cause you NOT TO OPINE, that
    you fail "to understand something".


    Now onto Medical Science.
    "Cholesterol
    Your body uses cholesterol to hold cells together and make hormones, vitamin D, and substances that help digest foods.
    Common sources are animal products, such as meat, eggs, and butter. Two main types of lipoproteins help move cholesterol through the blood: LDL and HDL. While your body needs this substance to work properly, too much can cause problems. The only way to determine your level is through a blood test."
    and
    Where Does It Come From?
    Cholesterol comes from two places.
    Your body actually makes most of what it needs in the liver.
    The rest comes from the foods you eat.

    Cholesterol is only made by animals, so you can only get it by eating animal products, such as:

    Meat
    Chicken
    Fish
    Eggs
    Butter
    Cheese
    Whole milk.


    These foods can provide you with more than enough cholesterol.
    You will not find it in anything that comes from a plant.
    For example, cholesterol-free foods include fruits, vegetables, or whole grains."

    So- if my thing- in changing my diet since June of this summer-
    is all about-ME- and MY body- and MY Health,
    and I also
    do believe that The Industrial Production of MEAT-
    causes a horribly NEGATIVE EFFECT on the health of our Planet,
    then- please allow me-
    to EAT- what-ever I care to-with out attempting to Polarize us- further than we are.
    I believe that this attempt, to DIVIDE- Meat Eaters versus Plant based Eaters-
    is analogous thinking, that's led to our division in the Political Arena.

    There are plenty- of Independents, Green Party, and others SMART PEOPLE- who have beliefs that align with neither the Blue team- nor the tRump-eters, yet often find the divide in thoughts- prevents them from having Intelligent discourse about personal feelings /beliefs- especially- with those that want to put people in a Box-
    "Libetards"- "Right-Wing-Republicans"-"Covert-Racist-Republicans"-etc. as opposed to saying-
    jus'-a-Cousin-Who-Feels-different-than-I-Do-about this Orange-haired-Baby-someone else elected.

    If I don't eat Meat- It's not for you or anyone else to Label me a "Vegan".
    I chose to refer to my recent dietary change as being more aligned with being
    "Plant-Based", and if that happens to mean- I DIG-
    a Taco- made of Upton's Natural-Chorizo Seitan +Portabllas, w/KIMCHI- (or home-made Pico-de-Gallo) - I say- RIGHT-ON-to me!
    Speaking of Pico de Gallo- if you don't like the taste of Cilantro- as is proven that many do not- should I say- I just don't get people who could eat Mexican or Thai, or Vietnamese, Burmese Food - WITHOUT-Cilantro?
    :roll:
  • Post #27 - August 31st, 2018, 10:55 am
    Post #27 - August 31st, 2018, 10:55 am Post #27 - August 31st, 2018, 10:55 am
    d4v3 wrote:H de A,
    Forgetting your absurd hyperbolic and illogical statement about the Taliban, the FACT is that cholesterol does not come from animals. It is produced by all cells in the human body. It is a triglyceride derived from fat,and is an essential nutrient. It is an important component of all celI memranes.



    It is not. Cholesterol is a STEROL. It is a modified steroid derived from a lipid. It is definitely not a triglyceride. You know the wikipedia article you just referenced, read it.

    Edited to add: The rest of the 'biochemistry' that you wrote about in the post is also not true. But I am not going to go on and on about it.
    The art of living well and art of dying well are one. ---Epicurus

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