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    Post #1 - June 30th, 2004, 8:02 am
    Post #1 - June 30th, 2004, 8:02 am Post #1 - June 30th, 2004, 8:02 am
    Let us count the ways...

    Via The Chicago Tribune (registration required):

    The Guide to Eating Organic In and Around Chicago," recently issued by the Organic Food Network, offers a resource for diners and cooks on the prowl for organic foodstuffs. The listing includes farms, farmers markets, restaurants and supermarkets. Also included is the "Summer 2004 Guide to Local Organic Produce." (Some information is online at http://organicfoodnetwork.net.) For a copy send a check or money order for $6 payable to Organic Food Network, P.O. Box 4086, Wheaton, IL 60189. You will see that organic/local produce, meat, etc. is out there and not just at the Green City Market or Evanston.

    According to the Organic Food Network, local organic farm stuff can be found at farmer's markets in Naperville, Orland Park, Kankakee, Woodstock, Crystal Lake, Wilmette, Park Forest, and Wheaton (and more).

    This is an amazing resource of things available in Illinois, I bet you had no idea so much was out there.

    Terra Brockman can often be found selling the wares from her brother Henry's farm at the Evanston Farmer's Market. Her organization, Land Connection, is a great resource.

    Seven Generations Ahead works on environmental issues as well as sustainable food issues, but just for us foodies helps bring local produce such as organic meat to Oak Park. I am in the process of joining. You should too!

    How local is London? Still, Fergus Henderson is my idol and role model. I look at his menu daily to see how I should eat.
    Last edited by Vital Information on June 30th, 2004, 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
  • Post #2 - June 30th, 2004, 8:22 am
    Post #2 - June 30th, 2004, 8:22 am Post #2 - June 30th, 2004, 8:22 am
    I don't care if it is organic or not, but most of what I have seen in the Woodstock "farmers" market is GARBAGE and GROSSLY, GROSSLY overpriced. I live there, been there several times and have been massively UNDERWHELMED.

    Crystal Lake's is not much better.

    You can do MUCH better driving around McHenry Co. and stop at the many farm stands that are in this area.

    Woodman's sources a lot of their produce, in season, from local Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota farmers.
  • Post #3 - June 30th, 2004, 8:33 am
    Post #3 - June 30th, 2004, 8:33 am Post #3 - June 30th, 2004, 8:33 am
    jlawrence01 wrote:Woodman's sources a lot of their produce, in season, from local Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota farmers.


    That's very interesting to know about Woodman's. In my long, long, looooooooooooooooooooong list of pet peeves, the inability of Whole Foods, ostensibly an organic store, to sell local produce, is one of them. I understand the business/logistical reasons for Whole Foods produce department, does not make it "right".

    rg
  • Post #4 - June 30th, 2004, 1:39 pm
    Post #4 - June 30th, 2004, 1:39 pm Post #4 - June 30th, 2004, 1:39 pm
    ...the inability of Whole Foods, ostensibly an organic store, to sell local produce, is one of them. I understand the business/logistical reasons for Whole Foods produce department, does not make it "right."

    My understanding, from someone who worked there for a while, is that early on, the individual stores' buyers had much more discretion about sourcing. Then, as they got bigger and more numerous and into more markets, they decided they had to purchase centrally and have consistency across their stores. (Though frankly, I don't actually see why. It seems to me that regional variation could just as easily be an attractive differentiator as a drawback. Consistency is for fast food, not the WF audience.)
    "Strange how potent cheap music is."
  • Post #5 - June 30th, 2004, 8:41 pm
    Post #5 - June 30th, 2004, 8:41 pm Post #5 - June 30th, 2004, 8:41 pm
    Supermarkets sourcing locally may not be too fresh, either, because they often insist on running the produce through their warehouses before shipping to store. A grower who sells at Green City Market, several Chicago farmers' markets and to some high-end restaurants told me the Meijers requires his produce to go through their warehouse in Grand Rapids before going to the stores. That means that his produce from Berrien County, Michigan, gets shipped away and then brought back to the local store. They told him that if they sold his peaches as intended, nobody would buy peaches there the rest of the year. There was such a look of pain in his eyes as he said that. The sad thing is that Meijers statement is probably true.

    The really good growers know their produce and have real pride in it. Unfortunately, some other growers are almost as clueless as the typical supermarket.
  • Post #6 - June 30th, 2004, 9:21 pm
    Post #6 - June 30th, 2004, 9:21 pm Post #6 - June 30th, 2004, 9:21 pm
    Well, then, the solution to that is... DON'T run it through your frickin' warehouse!

    Honestly, if I saw at my Whole Foods that X fruit or vegetable came from So-and-So farms in Boone or Grundy County, Illinois, and more to the point, if I saw the guy delivering it to my Whole Foods, you bet I'd pay attention. I'd be all over that stuff. It is a missed opportunity for them, and if they can't handle it logistically, then what does that say about their priorities.

    But then, I keep expecting some hot dog stand to have the brains to offer Hot Doug's-like unusual meats while Hot Doug's is closed and differentiate himself from the 10 billion other hot dog stands in Chicago that way, and that hasn't happened either.
  • Post #7 - June 30th, 2004, 9:21 pm
    Post #7 - June 30th, 2004, 9:21 pm Post #7 - June 30th, 2004, 9:21 pm
    ekreider wrote: They told him that if they sold his peaches as intended, nobody would buy peaches there the rest of the year.


    Can I use that as my LTH "sig"?

    Rob
  • Post #8 - June 30th, 2004, 10:09 pm
    Post #8 - June 30th, 2004, 10:09 pm Post #8 - June 30th, 2004, 10:09 pm
    ekreider wrote:Supermarkets sourcing locally may not be too fresh, either, because they often insist on running the produce through their warehouses before shipping to store. A grower who sells at Green City Market, several Chicago farmers' markets and to some high-end restaurants told me the Meijers requires his produce to go through their warehouse in Grand Rapids before going to the stores. That means that his produce from Berrien County, Michigan, gets shipped away and then brought back to the local store. They told him that if they sold his peaches as intended, nobody would buy peaches there the rest of the year. There was such a look of pain in his eyes as he said that. The sad thing is that Meijers statement is probably true.

    The trend is for the supermarkets to try to get suppliers from further and further away. This makes sense from a negotiation standpoint to try to commoditize the produce as much as possible. Introducing their customers to a better quality local supplier, or anyone that isn't the standard unripe peach is not in the supermarket's best interest. They want you to believe you're getting fresh produce when you sink your teeth into a crunchy, fibrous, dry peach.

    Meanwhile food storage and transportation continues to evolve with new technology. I know of a company trying to commercialize a technology that would allow fruits and vegetables to be economically stored for shipments of over a month, meaning farmers in Michigan will be competing with farmers in Africa for space in their local Meijers.
  • Post #9 - July 1st, 2004, 3:14 pm
    Post #9 - July 1st, 2004, 3:14 pm Post #9 - July 1st, 2004, 3:14 pm
    Rich4's comment sounds like others are following the formula that has gotten Dominick's in so much trouble: cut costs and hang the quality. Hoping that most or all of your customers are ignorant is a dangerous strategy, particularly when there are some good farmers' markets and local fruit and vegetable markets out there. We buy very little produce in the chains (haven't stepped in Dominick's in months) because there are better options.
  • Post #10 - July 1st, 2004, 4:20 pm
    Post #10 - July 1st, 2004, 4:20 pm Post #10 - July 1st, 2004, 4:20 pm
    ekreider wrote:Hoping that most or all of your customers are ignorant is a dangerous strategy, particularly when there are some good farmers' markets and local fruit and vegetable markets out there.

    Farmer's markets have been growing in popularity; I would encourage everyone to contribute to that trend. It truly frightens me how many people there are out there who care very little about the quality of their groceries. To be less harsh, I'd add that the lower cost and greater convenience of supermarket chains beats out the higher cost and much more of a pain to get to farmer's market.
  • Post #11 - July 1st, 2004, 6:32 pm
    Post #11 - July 1st, 2004, 6:32 pm Post #11 - July 1st, 2004, 6:32 pm
    You know what's interesting. It is my understanding that there are not enough farmer's to stock the farmer's markets, that the demand for vendors at all our local markets exceeds are supply of vendors.

    I wonder if as much, if not more impact and results can come from encouraging restaurants to be more local. Like get Charlie Trotter to put whitefish on his menu--do not laugh places like China and France, freshwater fish is highly, highly prized. How 'bout a few quennelles Charlie? And every place offering caprese salad from November until June, we should hold them up for public ridicule (no?). We should keep a running tab of ridiculous products being offered.

    If restaurants really moved towards making their menus local and seasonal, then it would encourage the commercialization of local farming. It would just be damn easier for them to have a consisent, large source of business. Plus, if Grant Achatz is touting the beef from the Wettsteins, perhaps a few more people will buy it.

    rg
  • Post #12 - July 1st, 2004, 10:09 pm
    Post #12 - July 1st, 2004, 10:09 pm Post #12 - July 1st, 2004, 10:09 pm
    Vital Information wrote:I wonder if as much, if not more impact and results can come from encouraging restaurants to be more local. Like get Charlie Trotter to put whitefish on his menu--do not laugh places like China and France, freshwater fish is highly, highly prized. How 'bout a few quennelles Charlie?...
    If restaurants really moved towards making their menus local and seasonal, then it would encourage the commercialization of local farming. It would just be damn easier for them to have a consisent, large source of business...

    I'd guess people who go to Trotter's demand more exotic ingredients. He gets much of his produce from a boutique vegetable farm in Ohio so he can work with unique microgreens, cucumber blossoms and the such to build unique dishes. But the bulk of the restaurants are probably more concerned with keeping costs down to offer competitive prices, than with sourcing locally. Why? Because that's what people want, or so they think. We should start asking restaurants how much local content is in their food. Did anyone else catch the New York Times magazine article a few months ago about the Farmer's Diner? Basically it's a diner in Vermont that they are trying to turn into a franchise, except 80% or so of the food must be locally sourced. See their website for more http://www.farmersdiner.com
  • Post #13 - July 2nd, 2004, 8:00 am
    Post #13 - July 2nd, 2004, 8:00 am Post #13 - July 2nd, 2004, 8:00 am
    ekreider wrote:Rich4's comment sounds like others are following the formula that has gotten Dominick's in so much trouble: cut costs and hang the quality. Hoping that most or all of your customers are ignorant is a dangerous strategy, particularly when there are some good farmers' markets and local fruit and vegetable markets out there. We buy very little produce in the chains (haven't stepped in Dominick's in months) because there are better options.

    I agree in principle, but at the farmer's markets, look around each booth before you buy. You may find boxes from all over the US. And it still doesn't hurt to ask, as boxes may be stored in trucks.
  • Post #14 - July 2nd, 2004, 11:13 am
    Post #14 - July 2nd, 2004, 11:13 am Post #14 - July 2nd, 2004, 11:13 am
    Bob S. wrote:at the farmer's markets, look around each booth before you buy. You may find boxes from all over the US. And it still doesn't hurt to ask, as boxes may be stored in trucks.

    I think the people organizing the farmer's market, at least Green City, verify the origin of produce sold, and in at least one case have evicted someone selling goods from further away.
  • Post #15 - July 2nd, 2004, 4:07 pm
    Post #15 - July 2nd, 2004, 4:07 pm Post #15 - July 2nd, 2004, 4:07 pm
    Rich4 wrote:
    Bob S. wrote:at the farmer's markets, look around each booth before you buy. You may find boxes from all over the US. And it still doesn't hurt to ask, as boxes may be stored in trucks.

    I think the people organizing the farmer's market, at least Green City, verify the origin of produce sold, and in at least one case have evicted someone selling goods from further away.

    That's definitely true of Green City, and true of some others. But many farmer's markets in the city are open to anything and everything.
  • Post #16 - July 2nd, 2004, 4:44 pm
    Post #16 - July 2nd, 2004, 4:44 pm Post #16 - July 2nd, 2004, 4:44 pm
    City of Chicago farmers' markets allow limited amounts of outside produce, but the rules are abused with impunity by some growers. The rationale for the rule change a few years ago was customer complaints about the unavailability of some produce due to seasonality. Talk about having your priorities backward.

    There may well be a problem with having enough growers for some markets. Everybody want weekend markets, but produce matures all week. Tuesday and Wednesday markets are very attractive to growers.

    Chicago has some serious attitude problems in the bureaucracy. I know of several growers who dropped some or all the their Chicago slots, particularly in the Loop, because sales weren't worth the aggravation. Treating schedules for early markets as a state secret rather than publicizing them is symptomatic. At the first Lincoln Park market a grower of my acquaintance told me that the city hadn't confirmed his slot yet so he just went to the same place as last year. Requiring growers to sell at poor markets to get slots at better markets is an irritant, particularly when your total sales at the poor market are less than the fuel cost to get there. The other markets you go to better be really good, or you find other outlets.
  • Post #17 - July 2nd, 2004, 7:11 pm
    Post #17 - July 2nd, 2004, 7:11 pm Post #17 - July 2nd, 2004, 7:11 pm
    ekreider wrote:City of Chicago farmers' markets allow limited amounts of outside produce, but the rules are abused with impunity by some ...


    Couple of years ago, the last year before our South Loop market was temporarily banished outside the city walls (to 18th and Wabash), as it were, one of the vendors was regularly to be seen transfering stuff from boxes with the word 'California' on them to cruddy old looking crates up on the folding table... Luckily, we haven't seen him in the last few years...

    There may well be a problem with having enough growers for some markets...


    Currently, our newly returned Printer's Row market has only one general vegetable vendor... Thank God, he's pretty good, but in the years of exile at 18th there were a couple of others whose offerings were always more limited, sometimes different and sometimes better, usually (much) cheaper than those of the big dog... Old fashioned free-market capitalism, as opposed to the state endorsed monopolism that is all the rage these days...

    Chicago has some serious attitude problems in the bureaucracy. I know of several growers who dropped some or all the their Chicago slots, particularly in the Loop, because sales weren't worth the aggravation. Treating schedules for early markets as a state secret rather than publicizing them is symptomatic.


    Well, year-in year-out, this is a problem. All the merchants here at Printer's Row last week complained that they were afraid no one had heard they were here... They had a similar complaint a couple of years ago when they were first banished to 18th and Wabash...

    I'm not sure which is the more acute problem.... corruption or stupidity...

    A
    Alle Nerven exzitiert von dem gewürzten Wein -- Anwandlung von Todesahndungen -- Doppeltgänger --
    - aus dem Tagebuch E.T.A. Hoffmanns, 6. Januar 1804.
    ________
    Na sir is na seachain an cath.
  • Post #18 - July 3rd, 2004, 1:04 am
    Post #18 - July 3rd, 2004, 1:04 am Post #18 - July 3rd, 2004, 1:04 am
    Antonius wrote:All the merchants here at Printer's Row last week complained that they were afraid no one had heard they were here...


    I can vouch that the Trib, the Sun-Times and Lerner Newspapers at a minimum ran lists of the city's farmers' markets this spring, and the city has the complete list on its Web site.

    In a few cases, various aldermen or establishments in the nearby neighborhoods also issued press releases. So the word is getting out -- whether people are acting on it is another matter.
  • Post #19 - July 3rd, 2004, 6:49 am
    Post #19 - July 3rd, 2004, 6:49 am Post #19 - July 3rd, 2004, 6:49 am
    I can vouch that the Trib, the Sun-Times and Lerner Newspapers at a minimum ran lists of the city's farmers' markets this spring, and the city has the complete list on its... site.


    Such measures are expected and important but not everyone reads a (local) paper and of those that do, many don't see those announcements. In a neighbourhood such as mine, where they have moved the place of the market more than a mile and a half twice over the past few years, something more is clearly a desideratum.

    A prominent sign in the place where the market is now held across from Dearborn Station (and possibly one where it was held on 18th street as well), would be useful. Perhaps posters to be placed in local shop windows might be good too, since foot traffic is an important element for the success of neighbourhood businesses and the farmers' markets alike. In the past, the city has hung banners from street-lamp posts but, in typical fashion, they had ones hanging here two summers ago with the wrong location indicated and now that the location of the market has switched back to Printer's Row, the banners have disappeared. And in any event, being well above the sidewalk, the banners go, I suspect, unnoticed by many or most people, whereas posters in shop windows can be and are seen, judging from how visible and how much discussed the Printer's Row Book Fair posters were in the neighbourhood before the Tribune took the fair over and 'corporatised' it.

    A
    Alle Nerven exzitiert von dem gewürzten Wein -- Anwandlung von Todesahndungen -- Doppeltgänger --
    - aus dem Tagebuch E.T.A. Hoffmanns, 6. Januar 1804.
    ________
    Na sir is na seachain an cath.
  • Post #20 - July 4th, 2004, 7:08 pm
    Post #20 - July 4th, 2004, 7:08 pm Post #20 - July 4th, 2004, 7:08 pm
    Antonius wrote:In a neighbourhood such as mine, where they have moved the place of the market more than a mile and a half twice over the past few years, something more is clearly a desideratum....

    Perhaps posters to be placed in local shop windows might be good too, since foot traffic is an important element for the success of neighbourhood businesses and the farmers' markets alike.


    For this to happen, I suspect, it will take the efforts of volunteers, either those connected with the market or those who wish it well.

    Antonius wrote:A prominent sign in the place where the market is now held across from Dearborn Station (and possibly one where it was held on 18th street as well), would be useful.


    You might suggest this to your alderman, who can probably expedite getting such signs placed.

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