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    Post #1 - December 29th, 2018, 2:54 pm
    Post #1 - December 29th, 2018, 2:54 pm Post #1 - December 29th, 2018, 2:54 pm
    Made an attempt to make Bouillabaisse on Christmas Eve.
    Bought the fish stock from Burhops in Hinsdale. Their stock was terrible. Wasted money on good fish. Meal was a disappointment.
    Any suggestions on making good fish stock from someone who has done it? Can read cookbooks. Nothing there looks good.
    Since our bad experience a "Bud", A Korean MD, told me to get the necessary stock ingredients at the Korean grocery store, JO BOOH, Belmont and the Kennedy.
    Any thoughts or success with making good stock.
    THX
    Wally Wade
  • Post #2 - December 29th, 2018, 3:08 pm
    Post #2 - December 29th, 2018, 3:08 pm Post #2 - December 29th, 2018, 3:08 pm
    I make fish stock when I make gefilte fish. It's pretty simple. Get fish bones. Add water, onion, carrot, and celery. Simmer. I just ask for bones/carcasses for stock at Dirk's. Since I always get this when I get ground fish for gefilte fish, I think they just throw in the carp/whitefish/walleye carcasses they used to make my ground fish order - plus another head or backbone or two. Fish mongers have tons of bones and I'm sure they would be happy to provide you what you need for little or no cost.

    Recently, I've been making it in the pressure cooker, but I don't think it comes out any different than when I do it on the stove (it just cooks faster).

    If I were in your shoes, I could see how this reply might not be super helpful since I didn't really offer any tips or a specific recipe. I guess this is to say that I don't think you necessarily need suggestions or cookbooks. Just try it and tweak it to your taste.

    That being said, most recipes I see sub clam juice for all (or a portion) of fish stock in recipes so that's another route you could go.
  • Post #3 - December 29th, 2018, 4:05 pm
    Post #3 - December 29th, 2018, 4:05 pm Post #3 - December 29th, 2018, 4:05 pm
    this is not an instant solution, but as a lover of bouillabaisse, my game plan is always to make stock from shrimp shells. i collect shrimp shells (from shrimp we cook at home) in the freezer over a few months (or more) and when it's time to make stock i sautéed the shells in butter, then add a little white wine, water, carrot, onion, celery, salt, pepper and simmer. it makes a much more delicate stock than clam juice.
  • Post #4 - December 29th, 2018, 5:25 pm
    Post #4 - December 29th, 2018, 5:25 pm Post #4 - December 29th, 2018, 5:25 pm
    walter wade wrote:Any suggestions on making good fish stock from someone who has done it? Can read cookbooks. Nothing there looks good.
    THX
    Wally Wade


    Why do cookbooks look not good? As gastro gnome said, Take fish bones, heads, tails, shrimp shells or anything else you would normally through away and simmer with onion, carrot and celery. No need to simmer longer than 20-30 minutes. I'm sure that is what most of your cookbooks also say.
  • Post #5 - December 29th, 2018, 6:57 pm
    Post #5 - December 29th, 2018, 6:57 pm Post #5 - December 29th, 2018, 6:57 pm
    Thanks to all

    Wally Wade
  • Post #6 - December 31st, 2018, 5:49 am
    Post #6 - December 31st, 2018, 5:49 am Post #6 - December 31st, 2018, 5:49 am
    For stock, you do not want an oily fish nor shrimp shells.
    You want preferably bones from a flatfish and/or sea bass minus the gills, fins and skin.
    A fair substitute is the dried granulated fish product sold in Japanese stores for Miso and other types of soup. Dried bonito flakes are for Miso but I suppose could be used?
    To make a fume, simply poach the bones starting in cold water with vegetables such as onions, carrot and celery and anise and afew whole white pepper corns, skimming the foam.
    In a pinch substitute unsalted msg free chicken stock.
    A good olive oil makes a-nice emulsion aka ‘Floyd On Fish’.
    If you can find a copy, probably the best recipe/technique/tutorial!
    -Richard
  • Post #7 - December 31st, 2018, 9:35 am
    Post #7 - December 31st, 2018, 9:35 am Post #7 - December 31st, 2018, 9:35 am
    I find bonito flakes have a strong almost smoky smell. It gets somewhat muted when you make dashi, but I'm not sure it's something I'd want in all fish stocks (depending on your eventual application).
  • Post #8 - December 31st, 2018, 10:47 am
    Post #8 - December 31st, 2018, 10:47 am Post #8 - December 31st, 2018, 10:47 am
    gastro gnome wrote:I find bonito flakes have a strong almost smoky smell. It gets somewhat muted when you make dashi, but I'm not sure it's something I'd want in all fish stocks (depending on your eventual application).

    Yes, bonito definitely carries a smoky note.

    The dashi granules are known as handashi, and available at Mitsuwa Marketplace or Amazon but considering they also contain a kombu component, they may not be a great choice for bouillabaisse.

    =R=
    Same planet, different world
  • Post #9 - December 31st, 2018, 12:56 pm
    Post #9 - December 31st, 2018, 12:56 pm Post #9 - December 31st, 2018, 12:56 pm
    Thanks. A Korean friend, suggested I go to Joong Boo.
    Belmont and the Kennedy for their granulated fish that he uses for bouillabaisse.
    Also tracking down Floyd of Fish.

    Wally Wade
  • Post #10 - December 31st, 2018, 1:15 pm
    Post #10 - December 31st, 2018, 1:15 pm Post #10 - December 31st, 2018, 1:15 pm
    walter wade wrote:Thanks. A Korean friend, suggested I go to Joong Boo.
    Belmont and the Kennedy for their granulated fish that he uses for bouillabaisse.
    Also tracking down Floyd of Fish.

    Wally Wade

    They now have a north suburban location:

    Joong Boo Market
    670 Milwaukee Ave, Glenview, IL 60025

    They have a food court upstairs, too.
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways,
  • Post #11 - December 31st, 2018, 6:54 pm
    Post #11 - December 31st, 2018, 6:54 pm Post #11 - December 31st, 2018, 6:54 pm
    thx

    wally wade
  • Post #12 - January 1st, 2019, 6:14 am
    Post #12 - January 1st, 2019, 6:14 am Post #12 - January 1st, 2019, 6:14 am
    C8C32823-B70B-4712-BB2C-0F4EAAF322E7.jpeg
    This is the Korean ‘Seafood Spice Mix’ I currently use.
    I don’t know if I got it at Mitsuwa or H Mart?
    It does contain Sea Tangle, a kelp but is very different than the generic HonDashi.
    There are many types of Japanese HonDashi that contain various primary ingredients such as Anchovy instead of Bonito, many come in little stick packages and are quite useful.
    It pays to experiment and when I see a new variety, I try it.
    This primary one I currently use for fish stock works quite well for a fish based Pho also.
    The other problem with many of these products is that they may not be available the next time you want to purchase.-Richard
    A77D243B-B62B-423D-915E-466B94C84D78.jpeg
  • Post #13 - January 1st, 2019, 7:20 pm
    Post #13 - January 1st, 2019, 7:20 pm Post #13 - January 1st, 2019, 7:20 pm
    I just use a bunch of fishheads. I go to a market that sells a lot of carp, buffalo fish, and other freshwater local fish, and buy the heads. After pulling the gills, I add some carrots, onions, and celery and simmer the fishheads for half an hour. At one point long ago I read (? probably in Julia?) that fish parts shouldn't be simmered for longer than half an hour. Dunno why, but I follow that rule.

    Makes a perfectly acceptable broth.

    Geo
    Sooo, you like wine and are looking for something good to read? Maybe *this* will do the trick! :)
  • Post #14 - February 16th, 2022, 3:41 pm
    Post #14 - February 16th, 2022, 3:41 pm Post #14 - February 16th, 2022, 3:41 pm
    Hi,

    Has anyone had Chicken Bouillabaisse? I had a clipping in my files from Cook's Illustrated with no fish or seafood. I found other recipes with some mussels and shrimps.

    In my cupboard in the category things people give me: I have a Knorr Boullabaisse base. I am have tempted to cook the chicken in this base, which could work out just fine or will fish flavored (if there is any) chicken be a bust?

    Once you add the bread croutons and garlicky rouille dipping sauce, it may mask all sins.

    Regards,
    Cathy2
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways,
  • Post #15 - February 16th, 2022, 4:13 pm
    Post #15 - February 16th, 2022, 4:13 pm Post #15 - February 16th, 2022, 4:13 pm
    Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

    Has anyone had Chicken Bouillabaisse? I had a clipping in my files from Cook's Illustrated with no fish or seafood. I found other recipes with some mussels and shrimps.

    In my cupboard in the category things people give me: I have a Knorr Boullabaisse base. I am have tempted to cook the chicken in this base, which could work out just fine or will fish flavored (if there is any) chicken be a bust?

    Once you add the bread croutons and garlicky rouille dipping sauce, it may mask all sins.

    Regards,
    Cathy2


    I would think a chicken bouillabase would refer to the preparation of the stew as opposed to literally adding chicken to a fish-based stew. I see no good coming from adding chicken to a fish-based broth.
  • Post #16 - February 16th, 2022, 4:38 pm
    Post #16 - February 16th, 2022, 4:38 pm Post #16 - February 16th, 2022, 4:38 pm
    Adapting France’s famous fish stew to make a chicken bouillabaisse recipe involved several steps: substituting canned chicken broth for fish stock, adding flour and tomato paste to the saffron and cayenne before adding the broth to give the sauce extra body, adding pastis earlier than usual to give the alcohol time to cook off, and using canned tomatoes, which are reliable year-round. To help the chicken skin stay crisp, we switched from stovetop to oven cooking, where the heat from above kept the moisture from condensing on the chicken. To brighten the traditional saffron mayonnaise for our chicken bouillabaisse recipe, we added lemon juice and Dijon mustard.
  • Post #17 - February 16th, 2022, 6:21 pm
    Post #17 - February 16th, 2022, 6:21 pm Post #17 - February 16th, 2022, 6:21 pm
    Cathy, I am with spinynorman here. I would leave the Knorr fish stock for another time.

    In my opinion, the ingredients that would make a bouillabaisse ring true -- even using chicken -- would include the Pernod, orange peel or zest, fennel and saffron.

    By chance, I have the new cookbook from America's Test Kitchen out from our library. It is called 'The Chicken Bible' and wow is it wonderful! 500 recipes!

    Here is what they say in the intro called "Why This Recipe Works."

    "Bouillbaisse is a traditional French stew bursting with fish and shellfish and the Flavors of Provence. We thought its potent flavors would work well with chicken. Adapting the recipe involved several steps: We substituted chicken broth for fish stock and added flour and tomato paste to the saffron and cayenne o give the sauce extra body. White wine and orange zest brought complexity, and adding the pastis, an anise-flavored liqueur (or Pernod) early on gave the alcohol time to cook off and leave behind a hint of sweetness. To help the chicken skin stay crisp after browning, we switched from stovetop to oven cooking. We rested the chicken on the potatoes as the bouillabaisse cooked in the oven so that the skin stayed out of the liquid and remained crisp. A finishing blast from the broiler before serving further enhanced the crispness. Serve with Rouille and Garlic toasts."

    A typical ATC recipe --by which I would expect some unique step or technique. But it really sounds good! The soup itself has eighteen ingredients and there are separate recipes for the rouille and garlic toasts.

    The 'NO NEW COOKBOOKS!" ban is still in effect at our house but this 'The Chicken Bible' book is so amazing that I think it might have to get smuggled in. At $40, it is only 12 cents per recipe! :lol:

    Ah, I see I have been scooped! I must type faster. :roll:
  • Post #18 - February 17th, 2022, 3:22 am
    Post #18 - February 17th, 2022, 3:22 am Post #18 - February 17th, 2022, 3:22 am
    In my not so humble opinion, ATC is a sham!
    Why waste your resources on developing a recipe for
    Chicken Bouillabaisse?
    For good stock you need flatfish bones, minus the fins, skin and gills.
    Any assortment of aromatics as well.
    Preferably you purchase whole flatfish. clean and filet yourself.
    After you make your stock, then add your Fish and at the last moment shell fish and/or shrimp/lobster, Pernod.
    I always use fennel also.
    A rouille of garlic, mayo and hot pepper is a must for dipping or adding to the broth.
    -Richard

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