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Question about slow cooking prime rib

Question about slow cooking prime rib
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  • Question about slow cooking prime rib

    Post #1 - April 25th, 2018, 5:54 pm
    Post #1 - April 25th, 2018, 5:54 pm Post #1 - April 25th, 2018, 5:54 pm
    I'm going to be cooking a large (14-15 LB) rib roast for family this weekend. I'm attracted to the low heat method, but am concerned about how long such a large roast will take with that method. Most of the information I can find is for 6-8 pound roasts. Anyone have any idea how long the initial cooking should take? I'm not worried about the high heat blast at the end.

    Thanks,
  • Post #2 - April 25th, 2018, 6:28 pm
    Post #2 - April 25th, 2018, 6:28 pm Post #2 - April 25th, 2018, 6:28 pm
    Many ways to cook a large ‘Prime Rib’!
    But if you start Low and end High, you may overshoot and not get a crsip exterior before you get to your desired internal temp to rest.
    Best to blast FIRST and then cook to say 115F internal and then rest for 1-2 hours monitoring the temp internal with a Thermopen. We pull sometimes even lower depending on the crowd and it’s preferences.
    We serve when the resting temp is achieved.
    Jacques Pepin has THE BEST method including a great rub.-Richard
  • Post #3 - April 25th, 2018, 7:06 pm
    Post #3 - April 25th, 2018, 7:06 pm Post #3 - April 25th, 2018, 7:06 pm
    budrichard wrote:Many ways to cook a large ‘Prime Rib’!
    But if you start Low and end High, you may overshoot and not get a crsip exterior before you get to your desired internal temp to rest.
    Best to blast FIRST and then cook to say 115F internal and then rest for 1-2 hours monitoring the temp internal with a Thermopen. We pull sometimes even lower depending on the crowd and it’s preferences.
    We serve when the resting temp is achieved.
    Jacques Pepin has THE BEST method including a great rub.-Richard

    Nope, no way. Nonsense even. I've been following Kenji's reverse sear method for some time with perfect results.

    Anyway, I'll admit that the proposed size presents some challenges . . . but I'm a Kenji devotee.

    So here you go: https://www.seriouseats.com/2009/12/the ... e-rib.html
    I find the pastrami to be the most sensual of all the salted, cured meats. (Seinfeld)

    Twitter: brbinchicago
  • Post #4 - April 25th, 2018, 7:24 pm
    Post #4 - April 25th, 2018, 7:24 pm Post #4 - April 25th, 2018, 7:24 pm
    Jonah,

    When cooking a whole, bone-in standing rib roast using the low/slow method, I've had it take as long as 7 hours but you can cheat it a bit by leaving the roast on the counter overnight before you cook it. This will assuredly save some time. And definitely sear at the end. Anything else is a fool's errand, lol!

    =R=
    There's a horse loose in a hospital -- JM

    I am not interested in how I would evaluate the Springbank in a blind tasting. Every spirit has its story, and I include it in my evaluation, just as I do with human beings. --Thad Vogler

    I'll be the tastiest pork cutlet bowl ever --Yuri Katsuki

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #5 - April 25th, 2018, 7:56 pm
    Post #5 - April 25th, 2018, 7:56 pm Post #5 - April 25th, 2018, 7:56 pm
    One more thing: you'll notice that Kenji's method lists estimated times based on different temperatures. On multiple occasions, where testing the internal temperature suggested to me that I was not going to have the meat ready as early as I hoped, I raised the temperature some. But I always try to start off on the lower temperature range of those suggested so that I never really have to go up to 250 degrees, but this gives me plenty of flexibility. And of course, Kenji notes that you can rest the meat up to 90 minutes before finishing with the sear, so not a terribly big deal if the meat is done a bit early. Personally however, I prefer closer to the 30 minute rest (if possible) to ensure that the inside of the roast remains as warm as possible.
    I find the pastrami to be the most sensual of all the salted, cured meats. (Seinfeld)

    Twitter: brbinchicago
  • Post #6 - April 25th, 2018, 8:31 pm
    Post #6 - April 25th, 2018, 8:31 pm Post #6 - April 25th, 2018, 8:31 pm
    Regardless of method a quality instant read thermometer such as a Thermapen by ThemoWorks is essential! Also, importantly, remember let the meat rest and take carry forward cooking into consideration, a large 7-bone rib roast will increase by ten or more degrees internal temp once it comes off heat.

    In 99% of meat cookery internal temp is the key to the kingdom. Going strictly by time is for suckers. :)

    I posted the following in another thread, it still applies.
    G Wiv wrote:ThermoWorks is tip top and, while you probably don't need a Thermapen for occasional use, though the Classic on sale for $71 is a good buy, either the ThermoPop for $29 or RT600C for $19 will serve you well. ===> Link
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #7 - April 25th, 2018, 10:43 pm
    Post #7 - April 25th, 2018, 10:43 pm Post #7 - April 25th, 2018, 10:43 pm
    Totally agreed, Gary.

    Here are links to a couple of instructive threads started previously . . .

    Whole Rib Roast

    Where do you get your prime rib?

    Image
    Low/Sow, Sear At The End

    =R=
    There's a horse loose in a hospital -- JM

    I am not interested in how I would evaluate the Springbank in a blind tasting. Every spirit has its story, and I include it in my evaluation, just as I do with human beings. --Thad Vogler

    I'll be the tastiest pork cutlet bowl ever --Yuri Katsuki

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #8 - April 26th, 2018, 7:49 am
    Post #8 - April 26th, 2018, 7:49 am Post #8 - April 26th, 2018, 7:49 am
    Great line in timing is for suckers. Absolutely. I frequently grill at my workplace. Quite well and the people always ask how long. I set them straight with your line. I have enough experience I can use touch and that experience to get desired results. Still, a thermometer may be in order. Thanks.
  • Post #9 - April 26th, 2018, 8:09 am
    Post #9 - April 26th, 2018, 8:09 am Post #9 - April 26th, 2018, 8:09 am
    Puckjam wrote:I have enough experience I can use touch and that experience to get desired results. Still, a thermometer may be in order. Thanks.

    I have quite a bit of experience cooking meat and agree when it comes to steaks, chops, burgers etc, touch works just fine. With a big hunk-o-meat such as a 17/lb standing rib roast, that is hyper internal temperature sensitive, I need an fast quality instant read to tell me what's going on in the middle.
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #10 - April 26th, 2018, 8:40 am
    Post #10 - April 26th, 2018, 8:40 am Post #10 - April 26th, 2018, 8:40 am
    I wouldn't think of cooking this without a thermometer. Indeed, I have a new gadget that sends the temperature wirelessly to my phone.

    The question about timing was to be able to time serving dinner at a certain time. I don't want everyone hungry and have to have them sit there for two more hours! Given the long rest, all I'd need would be a good range, like 5-7 hours. Then I could start at say 10:30. It would probably be ready at 4:30, and sear it at 5:30. But at worst I could sear it by 6:00 or 6:30 and dinner would be just a bit late.
  • Post #11 - April 26th, 2018, 10:37 am
    Post #11 - April 26th, 2018, 10:37 am Post #11 - April 26th, 2018, 10:37 am
    Jonah wrote: I could start at say 10:30. It would probably be ready at 4:30, and sear it at 5:30. But at worst I could sear it by 6:00 or 6:30 and dinner would be just a bit late.


    That sounds like a very reasonable plan. The first time you use this method, it's a little scary, because it seems like the meat will never get done, but trust those who have gone before you. It's the best way to do a rib roast in the oven.
    Steve Z.

    “Only the pure in heart can make a good soup.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven
  • Post #12 - April 26th, 2018, 10:45 am
    Post #12 - April 26th, 2018, 10:45 am Post #12 - April 26th, 2018, 10:45 am
    I continue to be impressed by Poster’s on this Forum, quick to denigrate and disparage.
    I suggest you read Jacques Pepin’s, ‘The Art Of Cooking Vol 1, Rib Roast Claire With Yorkshire Pudding’.
    Jacques starts by showing you how to properly clean and prep a whole rib roast. If your think all you have to do is purchase one and pop in the oven, read his prep.
    He actually starts at 425F for one hour, lowers to 375 for 1 hour, turn off the oven and let rest in the oven.
    I prefer to temp and then pull out of the oven and rest externally. But I have used his method for perfect results without any Thermopen years ago with perfect results.
    Either method works as well as many other methods but to say the method or any other method is “nonsense” or for “suckers’ is Internet Speak.
    You can abe assured that I will in the future rarely Post to answer any queries when there is such an august group available to provide the ‘correct’ answer.
  • Post #13 - April 26th, 2018, 11:04 am
    Post #13 - April 26th, 2018, 11:04 am Post #13 - April 26th, 2018, 11:04 am
    budrichard wrote:I continue to be impressed by Poster’s on this Forum, quick to denigrate and disparage.
    I suggest you read Jacques Pepin’s, ‘The Art Of Cooking Vol 1, Rib Roast Claire With Yorkshire Pudding’.
    Jacques starts by showing you how to properly clean and prep a whole rib roast. If your think all you have to do is purchase one and pop in the oven, read his prep.
    He actually starts at 425F for one hour, lowers to 375 for 1 hour, turn off the oven and let rest in the oven.
    I prefer to temp and then pull out of the oven and rest externally. But I have used his method for perfect results without any Thermopen years ago with perfect results.
    Either method works as well as many other methods but to say the method or any other method is “nonsense” or for “suckers’ is Internet Speak.
    You can abe assured that I will in the future rarely Post to answer any queries when there is such an august group available to provide the ‘correct’ answer.


    My response of "nonsense" was in response to your statement that starting low was a riskier cooking method and that starting high was the best and obvious cooking method. So I was not suggesting that one cannot start high and finish low, but I was questioning your assertion that there is only one best way when I've tried both methods and prefer the reverse sear.
    I find the pastrami to be the most sensual of all the salted, cured meats. (Seinfeld)

    Twitter: brbinchicago
  • Post #14 - April 26th, 2018, 11:27 am
    Post #14 - April 26th, 2018, 11:27 am Post #14 - April 26th, 2018, 11:27 am
    reverse sear is absolutely the way to go
  • Post #15 - April 26th, 2018, 11:29 am
    Post #15 - April 26th, 2018, 11:29 am Post #15 - April 26th, 2018, 11:29 am
    Having tried both methods numerous times, I can vouch that both will deliver a quality result.

    But my mission is to always have the smallest gray band possible, and reverse sear is the clear winner in that sense.
  • Post #16 - April 26th, 2018, 1:57 pm
    Post #16 - April 26th, 2018, 1:57 pm Post #16 - April 26th, 2018, 1:57 pm
    budrichard wrote:But I have used his method for perfect results without any Thermopen years ago with perfect results.
    Either method works as well as many other methods but to say the method or any other method is “nonsense” or for “suckers’ is Internet Speak.

    Budrichard,

    I assure you I was not referring the method attributed to Jacques Pepin as for suckers. Furthermore if ever I was to disparage Jacques Pepin in any fashion I would be immediately struck by lightning, deservedly so.

    While I have no doubt you personally are able to cook all manner of foods without benefit of an instant read thermometer I'd like to point out two things. One, the referenced recipe, "Jacques Pepin’s, ‘The Art Of Cooking Vol 1, Rib Roast Claire With Yorkshire Pudding’." is from a cookbook published in 1992, well before the proliferation of accurate home use thermometers and, 2, there are generations of home cooks who overcook holiday turkeys, large beef roasts etc for whom the simple stab of an instant read would result in delicious as opposed to desiccation. Think how many people just out of hand say they "hate" turkey.

    I often get asked "how long should I cook <insert protein here>" my response is to give a vague general timeline and a specific internal temperature.

    Also, I know BR personally, he is a polite nice fellow who is an outstanding cook. He no more meant to disparage you personally then did I. Furthermore you have a vast and varied knowledge and your participation on LTHForum benefits us all, I hope you reconsider curtailing interacting on LTH.

    Regards,
    Gary
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #17 - April 26th, 2018, 4:19 pm
    Post #17 - April 26th, 2018, 4:19 pm Post #17 - April 26th, 2018, 4:19 pm
    budrichard wrote:I suggest you read Jacques Pepin’s, ‘The Art Of Cooking Vol 1, Rib Roast Claire With Yorkshire Pudding’.
    Jacques starts by showing you how to properly clean and prep a whole rib roast. If your think all you have to do is purchase one and pop in the oven, read his prep.
    He actually starts at 425F for one hour, lowers to 375 for 1 hour, turn off the oven and let rest in the oven.


    As has been discussed before, any of the "leave them in the oven to finish cooking" recipes are a bit risky these days, as modern ovens have better insulation than the ovens of a generation ago, when most of these recipes were created. As a result, the chance of overcooking a roast is higher. My sister ended up with Christmas roast cooked to medium because of this (and her failure to monitor a thermometer).

    FYI,
    Dave
  • Post #18 - April 28th, 2018, 10:55 pm
    Post #18 - April 28th, 2018, 10:55 pm Post #18 - April 28th, 2018, 10:55 pm
    We can go back and forth about the "best way" to cook a standing rib roast. Tonight, 24-hours late for National Prime Rib Day, I went a steady 325 with Royal Oak lump charcoal on my Big Green Egg. Didn't turn out too bad, if I do say so myself. :)
    Standing Rib Roast from Joseph's Finest Meats

    PrimeRibLTH1.jpg Standing Rib Roast, lump charcoal on Big Green Egg.

    PrimeRibLTH2.jpg Standing Rib Roast, lump charcoal on Big Green Egg.

    PrimeRibLTH3.jpg Standing Rib Roast, lump charcoal on Big Green Egg.

    PrimeRibLTH5.jpg Standing Rib Roast, lump charcoal on Big Green Egg.

    PrimeRibLTH6.jpg Standing Rib Roast, lump charcoal on Big Green Egg.
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #19 - April 28th, 2018, 11:44 pm
    Post #19 - April 28th, 2018, 11:44 pm Post #19 - April 28th, 2018, 11:44 pm
    That looks great, Gary. I wouldn't know whether to eat it or buy it a ring! How long did it take to cook?

    =R=
    There's a horse loose in a hospital -- JM

    I am not interested in how I would evaluate the Springbank in a blind tasting. Every spirit has its story, and I include it in my evaluation, just as I do with human beings. --Thad Vogler

    I'll be the tastiest pork cutlet bowl ever --Yuri Katsuki

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #20 - April 29th, 2018, 7:19 am
    Post #20 - April 29th, 2018, 7:19 am Post #20 - April 29th, 2018, 7:19 am
    ronnie_suburban wrote:That looks great, Gary. I wouldn't know whether to eat it or buy it a ring! How long did it take to cook?

    Given in a post upthread I state "Going strictly by time is for suckers." I'm 97.8% sure Ron is joking. For the humor impaired the actual answer is, not sure, though it was light when I put the meat on the Egg, dark when I took it off. Nearing dinner we were watching a movie, drinking wine and had a few Scooby snacks of Joseph's breakfast sausage I put on the smoker*

    As there there are, in this thread alone, many ways to achieve tasty results from standing rib roast I will outline in detail what I did on this specific occasion. Please keep in mind I've also had excellent results going hot/direct on a WSM, low & slow indirect on a WSM, home oven at 350°, hot smoke roast on Weber kettle, low & slow on an offset. Plus I've done numerous 7-bone standing rib roasts on Cookshack FEC500 smoker, Southern Pride smoker, commercial ovens and Combi Ovens in commercial restaurant settings plus a few methods I'm sure I'm forgetting. The central theme for success, once again, is keeping track of internal temperature.

    4.28.18 at home on a Big Green Egg, plate setter in place, Royal Oak lump charcoal, small chunk of dry debarked oak.

    Standing rib roast was a little over 6/lbs. Steady 325 with lump and a bit of oak, the bride prefers just a hint of smoke in her prime rib. Took off heat at 121° dead center on my Thermapen, loosely tented and let rest for 20-minutes. I didn't temp before slicing but would estimate center terminal temp, given the weight, cooking temp and appearance, as 127° or 128°.

    *In addition to fresh meat Joseph's Finest Meats has terrific house-made sausage, I particularly like hot Italian and breakfast.
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #21 - April 29th, 2018, 2:00 pm
    Post #21 - April 29th, 2018, 2:00 pm Post #21 - April 29th, 2018, 2:00 pm
    So here's the report of what I did after starting this thread, which was quite helpful. I went with the low temp, final sear method. Meat came out perfectly cooked. The only problem was that my 14.5 lb roast cooked in rough the same time as smaller roasts, so it was ready too early. I started it at 250 at 10:30 and it was done by 3:00, but dinner wasn't until 5:30. I just let it sit until 5:15 and then gave it the final blast. Turned out not to be a problem as the meat was still nicely warm. In fact, the extra long rest seemed beneficial as I did not have a a huge pool of juice flowing out when I carved it up.

    If I were to cook a roast like this again, I'd probably use the low heat, final sear method again. It was a huge hit a dinner as it's both got a wow factor and also tastes great.
  • Post #22 - April 29th, 2018, 2:31 pm
    Post #22 - April 29th, 2018, 2:31 pm Post #22 - April 29th, 2018, 2:31 pm
    Jonah wrote:The only problem was that my 14.5 lb roast cooked in rough the same time as smaller roasts, so it was ready too early.
    This is something I never seem to do well: estimating how long large roasts or multiple roasts or multiple dishes will take. My sister told me once she routinely roasts two chickens at a time and it takes practically no longer than to roast one. I subjected her to all my know-it-all thermodynamics arguments about how that could not possibly be true, only to find out, when I tested it out myself, that it was true. Just now I was looking at some roasting times for turkeys: 8 lbs, 4 hrs; 16 lbs, 5 hrs; 24 lbs, up to 9 hrs. Clearly nonlinear. The face-saving theory I'll go back to my sister with is that in a thermostat-controlled environment, more mass probably takes more energy to cook, but the relationship of time to weight is not linear. On a grill/smoker, I would guess that similar nonlinear trends apply, although disproportionately more energy may need to be input for proportionally larger amounts of meat.

    What works best for me --- because I don't like disrupting the oven temperature (or the kitchen temperature, for that matter) by opening the door repeatedly -- is a temperature probe on a wire connected to an external display.
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #23 - April 29th, 2018, 5:34 pm
    Post #23 - April 29th, 2018, 5:34 pm Post #23 - April 29th, 2018, 5:34 pm
    Katie wrote:
    Jonah wrote:My sister told me once she routinely roasts two chickens at a time and it takes practically no longer than to roast one. I subjected her to all my know-it-all thermodynamics arguments about how that could not possibly be true, only to find out, when I tested it out myself, that it was true. Just now I was looking at some roasting times for turkeys: 8 lbs, 4 hrs; 16 lbs, 5 hrs; 24 lbs, up to 9 hrs. Clearly nonlinear.

    So, using your thermodynamics arguments , of course there is no linear line with weight versus cooking time. If it is 2 lbs and 4 inches thick or 4 lbs and 4 inches thick, both will take the same amount of time to cook the center. ( with the very small aside of total mass will lower the internal temperature of the oven some small amount ) That's what we are talking about. The center. The time to cook through to the center of the roast is simply a function of how thick it is and how dense it is ( obviously along with how this particular meat conducts heat ).
  • Post #24 - April 29th, 2018, 6:20 pm
    Post #24 - April 29th, 2018, 6:20 pm Post #24 - April 29th, 2018, 6:20 pm
    Hi,

    Just this week, I cooked a 23-pound turkey straight from the freezer into the oven in six hours. I did have a probe reading the temperature as it cooked, because it finished with the breast at 165 degrees and the dark meat at 175 degrees.

    I was prepared to go seven hours based on research and hoped it would not be much longer. I did try this out with a chicken fresh from the freezer, so I was confident the outcome would be favorable.

    Regards,
    Cathy2
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #25 - April 30th, 2018, 10:12 am
    Post #25 - April 30th, 2018, 10:12 am Post #25 - April 30th, 2018, 10:12 am
    I used a new wireless oven thermometer from https://meater.com/
    It works well. You stick the probe in and you can constantly monitor the temperature on your phone. I'm not sure how far your phone can be from the oven, however.
  • Post #26 - April 30th, 2018, 12:17 pm
    Post #26 - April 30th, 2018, 12:17 pm Post #26 - April 30th, 2018, 12:17 pm
    lougord99 wrote:
    Katie wrote:
    Jonah wrote:My sister told me once she routinely roasts two chickens at a time and it takes practically no longer than to roast one. I subjected her to all my know-it-all thermodynamics arguments about how that could not possibly be true, only to find out, when I tested it out myself, that it was true. Just now I was looking at some roasting times for turkeys: 8 lbs, 4 hrs; 16 lbs, 5 hrs; 24 lbs, up to 9 hrs. Clearly nonlinear.

    So, using your thermodynamics arguments , of course there is no linear line with weight versus cooking time. If it is 2 lbs and 4 inches thick or 4 lbs and 4 inches thick, both will take the same amount of time to cook the center. ( with the very small aside of total mass will lower the internal temperature of the oven some small amount ) That's what we are talking about. The center. The time to cook through to the center of the roast is simply a function of how thick it is and how dense it is ( obviously along with how this particular meat conducts heat ).

    Lou, you don't need to dissuade me; I already admitted I was wrong. I knew a single turkey's cooking time doesn't increase linearly with weight; I think my mistake was guessing at the increase in cooking time for two chickens based on the increased total weight regardless of geometry. I didn't think cooking two chickens would take twice as long to cook; I did think they would take, say, maybe 30-50% longer. They didn't, for exactly the reason you say. It seems clear to me now why they wouldn't, *in a temperature-controlled environment*, e.g, an oven held at a certain temperature via a thermostat.

    Now, a 7-lb vs a 14-lb rib roast, hmm, is that like one versus two 7-lb chickens or a 7-lb vs a 14-lb turkey? I'm inclined to think it's somewhere between the two. Unlike turkeys, rib roasts increase mostly in length rather than in radius as they get heavier. Cut the 14-lb rib roast into two 7-lb roasts however, and I think you're back to the two-chickens scenario. If I can procure some funding for raw materials, I'd like to research this some more.
    "Your swimming suit matches your eyes, you hold your nose before diving, loving you has made me bananas!"
  • Post #27 - May 8th, 2018, 11:31 am
    Post #27 - May 8th, 2018, 11:31 am Post #27 - May 8th, 2018, 11:31 am
    Interesting discussion, lots of food, and food for thought. I've done the sear first, sear last re: Kenji, and the 'remove the bones Cook's Illustrated method. They all work. But I prefer Kenji's method for the same reason mentioned above: minimal gray zone.

    Two years ago I went to Thermoworks' Chef Alarm, your leave-in-the-oven probe for anything bigger than a steak. *Love* it.

    Thinking about the thermodynamics, things get interesting. First, consider shape: obviously your cylindrical top round is going to cook differently than an ideal spherical beast part. Secondly, I'd bet that surface to volume ratio is important as well--it sure is in wine- and cheese-making...

    I love these kinds of threads!

    Geo
    Sooo, you like wine and are looking for something good to read? Maybe *this* will do the trick! :)
  • Post #28 - June 17th, 2018, 9:58 am
    Post #28 - June 17th, 2018, 9:58 am Post #28 - June 17th, 2018, 9:58 am
    Lawry's ribeye and coleslaw
    The recipe and what they said during the program is slightly different: on tv, they indicated they cooked a full prime rib at 200 degrees F for about 2.5 hours until it had an internal temperature of 80 degrees F. After an overnight cooling, they are sliced into steaks.

    Finished in a frying pan for approximately 15 minutes.

    Regards,
    Cathy2
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast

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