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#1
Posted June 23rd 2004, 11:31am
I'm just full of queries today. (Slow day at the office.) Thank goodness I know where to go.

So, I bought some eggs at Trader Joe's without noticing that they were pasteurized. I hadn't even known such a thing existed. The package copy says you can go ahead and eat them raw; not that I'm so inclined, but it does mean I can go back to making hollandaise, mayonaise, etc. for my near and dear ones without fearing a lawsuit on my hands or a death on my conscience.

Does anyone have experience baking and using pasteruized eggs in various ways? The whites are a bit milky looking as mentioned on the box. Do they otherwise behave just like regular eggs? Will they beat into stiff peaks? Will they form an emulsion and hold it like regular eggs?

And how do they heat them sufficiently to kill the germs without actually cooking the eggs? It seems to me that the official instructions for cooking eggs safely that I have seen require one to overcook them practically to the point of inedibility.

Curious.
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#2
Posted June 23rd 2004, 12:17pm
mrbarolo wrote:So, I bought some eggs at Trader Joe's without noticing that they were pasteurized. I hadn't even known such a thing existed. The package copy says you can go ahead and eat them raw; not that I'm so inclined, but it does mean I can go back to making hollandaise, mayonaise, etc. for my near and dear ones without fearing a lawsuit on my hands or a death on my conscience.


Yes. Make anything you want. Totally safe. I've made mayo, ceasar dressing, and used them in refrigerator pies. I believe that most nursing homes, hospitals and general foodservice in the US are now using these eggs (by law), but I could be wrong.

mrbarolo wrote:Does anyone have experience baking and using pasteruized eggs in various ways? The whites are a bit milky looking as mentioned on the box. Do they otherwise behave just like regular eggs? Will they beat into stiff peaks? Will they form an emulsion and hold it like regular eggs?


I have found no difference in performance in these eggs when using them for other purposes.

mrbarolo wrote:And how do they heat them sufficiently to kill the germs without actually cooking the eggs? It seems to me that the official instructions for cooking eggs safely that I have seen require one to overcook them practically to the point of inedibility.


I know that they are pasteurized in a hot water immersion. I think the big difference is time over temperature. The water is not hot enough to cook them, but prolonged exposure to the water will kill the bacteria. I do not have the specifics of the scientific facts beyond this.
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#3
Posted June 23rd 2004, 12:39pm
Hi,

I pasteurize pickles to retain their crispness. For my situation, it is retaining temperature in the range of 180-184 degrees Fahrenheit for 30 minutes. Water bath processing causes a very limp pickle. Pastuerizing allows them to keep their crunch.

This may be the same temperature and time for the eggs. I don't know what temperature egg's coagulate, but we know not even the hottest day can you 'fry' an egg on a sidewalk.

Regards,
Last edited by Cathy2 on June 23rd 2004, 2:30pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#4
Posted June 23rd 2004, 2:26pm
Cook's Illustrated had a small piece recently about pasteurized eggs -- I believe it was actually a response to a letter they published in the front of the magazine. If I remember right, they noticed a slight cooked taste but found no other issues. They did include a mention of temperatures. If I can find the specific issue when I get home, I'll post something more specific.
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#5
Posted June 23rd 2004, 2:49pm
In our family we love the Davidson's pasturized eggs, typically available at TJs'[translated, The Condiment Queen makes the mayo that I love...]

I am a believer that the risk from raw eggs, for otherwise healthy people, is rather slim, but I like feeling safe(est) with the pasturized eggs. My understandng is that you cannot create stiff meringue with them, but otherwise there is little negative effect. On the other hand, real mayo, real tarter sauce, cesar salad, etc., etc. Worth it for sure!

rg
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#6
Posted June 23rd 2004, 2:56pm
My understandng is that you cannot create stiff meringue with them, but otherwise there is little negative effect.


The Swiss method of making meringue includes a slight warming of the egg white before beating. I have read where this method is considered the most stable. However, I have had it weep on humid days.

It would be interesting to try to make meringue from these eggs, at least for our edification. Why not give it a shot and let us know? OR just whip some up to see what happens, then advise!
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#7
Posted June 23rd 2004, 3:22pm
I'd be interested to see how it comes out. I tried to make egg nog myself a few years ago using those damn egg beater things or whatever, and the results just were NOT egg nog and I scrapped the idea. But I assume that the yummy (if right-wing) Oberweis egg nog uses pasteurized eggs, so it must work...

By the way, I've never really been afraid of raw eggs-- I read once that the rate of salmonella infection in chickens is something like 1 in 3, and the rate in eggs is something like 1 in 30,000, yet we treat the two as equally hazardous.

(Here's the Pdaane-required backup for my health info:
http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxificat ... w-eggs.htm
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#8
Posted June 24th 2004, 8:05am
I pasteurize pickles to retain their crispness. For my situation, it is retaining temperature in the range of 180-184 degrees Fahrenheit for 30 minutes. Water bath processing causes a very limp pickle. Pastuerizing allows them to keep their crunch.


Forgive my ignorance, but how do you pasteurize them? I make a batch of pickles each year, and I think that I have been lucky as they've been pretty crisp even with processing the jars in a water bath, but I'm always afraid my luck will run out.
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#9
Posted June 24th 2004, 8:27am
I make a batch of pickles each year, and I think that I have been lucky as they've been pretty crisp even with processing the jars in a water bath, but I'm always afraid my luck will run out.


In your steps to making pickles, you probably have salted them to remove all the excess fluid in the cucumbers. Probably having the crunch of a wilted cucumber salad.

I use the pasteurization method, I am the only one I know who does this, but it keeps the pickle from softening further than necessary. At temperatures over 185, the pickles begin to soften more. Some people who want the crunchy pickle, they will lime-treat the cucumber. I have one jar from a class long ago, to me they are like eating styrofoam board. Yuck! But if you grew up eating them and they are your standard, then they are wonderfully acceptable. I'm not used to it.

Pickle pasteurization illustrated

When I pasteurize, I have a digital thermometer which transmits a signal to no more than 100 feet to a receiver I carry which indicates the temperature. I read the newspaper, or continue cooking, and an audible alarm goes off if the temperature drops. I love my toys!
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#10
Posted June 24th 2004, 9:43am
Thanks for the link, I think I used to have that website bookmarked, but then our firm changed our operating system. I too love the remote thermometers - they are invaluable for roasting as well.
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#11
Posted August 20th 2011, 3:08pm
I have seen industrial egg farms. If I can't cook the eggs, I want them pasteurized. Unfortunately, I have not found any yet in the near western burbs. None at Jewel, Dominicks, or Trader Joes. Any guidance would be appreciated.
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#12
Posted August 20th 2011, 8:17pm
Try Whole Foods.
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#13
Posted August 21st 2011, 12:11pm
I found eggs at Jewel. National Pasteurized Eggs corp has a sore locat app on their web site:

http://www.safeeggs.com/store-locator
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#14
Posted August 21st 2011, 6:11pm
Cathy2 wrote:
I make a batch of pickles each year, and I think that I have been lucky as they've been pretty crisp even with processing the jars in a water bath, but I'm always afraid my luck will run out.


In your steps to making pickles, you probably have salted them to remove all the excess fluid in the cucumbers. Probably having the crunch of a wilted cucumber salad.

I use the pasteurization method, I am the only one I know who does this, but it keeps the pickle from softening further than necessary. At temperatures over 185, the pickles begin to soften more. Some people who want the crunchy pickle, they will lime-treat the cucumber. I have one jar from a class long ago, to me they are like eating styrofoam board. Yuck! But if you grew up eating them and they are your standard, then they are wonderfully acceptable. I'm not used to it.

Pickle pasteurization illustrated

When I pasteurize, I have a digital thermometer which transmits a signal to no more than 100 feet to a receiver I carry which indicates the temperature. I read the newspaper, or continue cooking, and an audible alarm goes off if the temperature drops. I love my toys!


Everyone you know that cans, pasteurizes. Pasteurization is simply heating something in a hermetically sealed environment to the point at which all living organisms present in the environment are dead. The normal hot water canning process does exactly the same thing.

Pasteurization can occur at different temperatures, which in turn requires different times. Heating something to 212F is simply faster than doing it at 180F. I forget what the minimum safe temperature is, but it is actually a lot lower than that.
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#15
Posted August 22nd 2011, 10:22am
Hi,

Not going to disagree with your position.

When Pasteurization is used in terms of home food preservation it is considered a distinctively different method than boiling water bath and pressure canning.

Pasteurization is intended for retaining the crunch in cucumber pickles. They begin to soften at 185 degrees. I prefer this than having a soft pickle or using lime.

You'll be happy, they refer to it as low temperature Pastuerization.

Regards,
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#16
Posted August 22nd 2011, 10:35am
Cathy2 wrote:When Pasteurization is used in terms of home food preservation it is considered a distinctively different method than boiling water bath and pressure canning.


I think I'm going to regret responding, but this is not correct. As I wrote a few months ago when this came up, ""Pasteurization" in general means holding a liquid at a certain temperature for a certain length of time to reduce bacteria. A given level of bacteria destruction can be accomplished by holding a liquid at a relatively high temperature for a short period of time, or holding it at a lower temperature for a longer period of time."

"Boiling water canning" and "low temperature pasteurization" are both examples of "pasteurization". We could refer to "boiling water canning" as "high temperature pasteurization". Understanding that both methods involve pasteurization is important because it highlights that the purpose of both methods - and the purpose of using sound techniques in the first place - is to make the product safe for later consumption.
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#17
Posted August 22nd 2011, 11:16am
Cathy2 wrote:I use the pasteurization method, I am the only one I know who does this, but it keeps the pickle from softening further than necessary.

You are not the only one anymore. Thanks to your Preservation Boot Camp, Ronna and I have adopted this method for pickled cukes and peppers. We turned a beautiful batch of pickled banana peppers to many sad jars of mush in a boiling water bath last year before we turned to low-temp pasteurization.

Cathy2 wrote: I love my toys!

Oh how I love my toys as well. I'm excited to use my newest toy, an immersion circulator, for our LTP this year. I expect it will make the process much easier and (hopefully) more precise.

Cathy2 wrote:I prefer this than having a soft pickle

Agreed. Nobody likes having a soft pickle.

--Rich
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#18
Posted August 22nd 2011, 1:25pm
funkyfrank wrote:I found eggs at Jewel. National Pasteurized Eggs corp has a sore locat app on their web site:

http://www.safeeggs.com/store-locator


While I don't worry particularly about eggs when it's just my family, I use these when making meals for others or elsewhere. I was surprised how hard they were to find: went to three different stores before finding them for $6 at Whole Paycheck. Thanks for the locator.
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#19
Posted August 22nd 2011, 1:58pm
Yet another reason to get a sous-vide temperature regulator.

According to Cooking Issues, eggs at 134F for 2 hours are pasteurized.

And concerning other issues, I read something awhile ago that differentiated between Pasteurization and sterilization. Again, I don't know off the top of my head, but Pasteurization, (according to that article) was killing something like all but one bacterium out of a million, and sterilization was 1 out of a billion.
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#20
Posted August 22nd 2011, 4:16pm
So I have seen pasteurized eggs that are liquid, pourable from a carton that is like a small half-n-half carton.

But are you talking about pasteurized eggs that are still in the shell with yolk and white intact? If so I have to look more closely when I go shopping! --Joy
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#21
Posted August 22nd 2011, 5:19pm
Joy wrote:But are you talking about pasteurized eggs that are still in the shell with yolk and white intact?


Yes. They look like regular eggs.
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#22
Posted August 22nd 2011, 6:13pm
Cathy2 wrote:When I pasteurize, I have a digital thermometer which transmits a signal to no more than 100 feet to a receiver I carry which indicates the temperature. I read the newspaper, or continue cooking, and an audible alarm goes off if the temperature drops. I love my toys!


I need this, along with the copper preserving pan and a fermenting crock. So where do I get this thermometer?
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#23
Posted August 22nd 2011, 6:28pm
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#24
Posted August 22nd 2011, 7:25pm
Joy wrote:But are you talking about pasteurized eggs that are still in the shell with yolk and white intact?


More or less. I've bought these eggs before and noticed that the whites are slightly cloudy, like they have begun to cook ever so slightly. Texture wise, they're the same as regular eggs and there is no noticeable difference in taste.
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#25
Posted August 22nd 2011, 7:40pm
stevez wrote:
Joy wrote:But are you talking about pasteurized eggs that are still in the shell with yolk and white intact?


More or less. I've bought these eggs before and noticed that the whites are slightly cloudy, like they have begun to cook ever so slightly. Texture wise, they're the same as regular eggs and there is no noticeable difference in taste.


These really took off during the salmonella scare but they've since been harder to find.
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#26
Posted August 22nd 2011, 10:43pm
pairs4life wrote:
Cathy2 wrote:When I pasteurize, I have a digital thermometer which transmits a signal to no more than 100 feet to a receiver I carry which indicates the temperature. I read the newspaper, or continue cooking, and an audible alarm goes off if the temperature drops. I love my toys!


I need this, along with the copper preserving pan and a fermenting crock. So where do I get this thermometer?

Fermenting crock: I use a 5-gallon food safe plastic container (obtained from Gus at Wiener and Still Champion). Cost: a smile and a thank you.
Thermometer: I bought it off of e-Bay. It is now broken. I use a candy thermometer made of glass with a steel casing. I saw its twin at a hardware store for $14 this evening.
Copper preserving pan: I'll bet it is a wide open pan like I bought in Moscow. You could use a 12-inch skillet instead.

Regards,
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#27
Posted August 23rd 2011, 1:34am
Darren72 wrote:
Joy wrote:But are you talking about pasteurized eggs that are still in the shell with yolk and white intact?

Yes. They look like regular eggs.


They do have a 'P' stamped onto them so even if you get your eggs intermingled you will know which ones have been pasteurized.
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#28
Posted August 23rd 2011, 8:01am
Cathy2 wrote:Fermenting crock: I use a 5-gallon food safe plastic container (obtained from Gus at Wiener and Still Champion). Cost: a smile and a thank you.


This is what I use also.

Just about every restaurant supply store has these and they are very cheap. Here is an example: http://www.amazon.com/CamSquare-8-Quart ... pd_sim_k_4

I like ones that you can see through, have a lid, and have measurement markings on the size. I have a round one and a square one, of different sizes, and use them for fermenting pickles, letting bread rise, brining/marinating meat, etc.

(Talk about thread drift. Pasteurized eggs anyone?)
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#29
Posted August 23rd 2011, 9:40pm
spinynorman99 wrote:
stevez wrote:
Joy wrote:But are you talking about pasteurized eggs that are still in the shell with yolk and white intact?


More or less. I've bought these eggs before and noticed that the whites are slightly cloudy, like they have begun to cook ever so slightly. Texture wise, they're the same as regular eggs and there is no noticeable difference in taste.


These really took off during the salmonella scare but they've since been harder to find.

I've used the pasteurized eggs when the recipe calls for raw eggs (for example, my family's 19th-century chocolate mousse recipe) and I'm serving anyone elderly, very young, or with immunity issues. I have always found them at Jewel. They do taste the same, but the cloudy whites Steve mentions mean that they do not beat normally--if you are beating the egg whites stiff, it takes a long, long, long time.
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#30
Posted August 24th 2011, 7:31am
EvA wrote:if you are beating the egg whites stiff, it takes a long, long, long time.


Seconded.
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