Kman wrote:FYI, the delicious expanded menu of sides available at the other two Budlong's is now also available at the Revival location. Only downside is that the beans that used to be sold at Revival are gone (and I thought they were darned good). Still, I'll gladly trade the beans for those terrific collards.

Those beans are available for consumption at BBQ Supply Co. ... including at today's LTH lunch (sold out) ...

rubbbqco wrote:

Kman wrote:FYI, the delicious expanded menu of sides available at the other two Budlong's is now also available at the Revival location. Only downside is that the beans that used to be sold at Revival are gone (and I thought they were darned good). Still, I'll gladly trade the beans for those terrific collards.

Those beans are available for consumption at BBQ Supply Co. ... including at today's LTH lunch (sold out) ...

Yes, and I've had them there, too (well, "back in the day" when it was RUB . . . ) but they do go great with the hot chicken. Wish I could have been there today but it's tough enough for me to get away for close (Loop-ish) lunches, heading up that far north is out of the question unless I'm off. I do look forward to visiting the new digs soon, though - and congrats!

ronnie_suburban wrote:I'm not sure which Budlong location prepares Caviar.com deliveries to Logan Square but a recent order was quite possibly the best food delivery I've ever had. And considering some of my previous experiences with Caviar, I certainly wasn't expecting it. Unlike so many other orders placed through Caviar, not only was this order not delivered late, it was actually 10 minutes early. I was shocked . . . SHOCKED!

As for The Budlong's part, it could not have gone better. Everything we ordered was actually delivered. The packaging they use, mostly paperboard clam shells, is perfect for the application. Our food arrived in stellar condition . . . hot, still crispy and, as an extra bonus, looking beautiful. Even the pickle slices were still sitting nicely atop the glistening leg quarters. I really was pleased to see it. Everything we ordered was excellent. The chicken (the aforementioned pieces and a well-made sandwich), the biscuits, the greens, the slaw . . . just excellent across the board.

I'd just about sworn off Caviar but I had so many credits from all the gaffes they'd made in the past, I decided to place one last order just to use up the credits. The Budlong performed so well, they pulled Caviar right out the fire. But still, next time I'm going to eat there. I'm actually excited to experience it in person.

=R=

Well you sold me!

Chitown B wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:I'm not sure which Budlong location prepares Caviar.com deliveries to Logan Square but a recent order was quite possibly the best food delivery I've ever had. And considering some of my previous experiences with Caviar, I certainly wasn't expecting it. Unlike so many other orders placed through Caviar, not only was this order not delivered late, it was actually 10 minutes early. I was shocked . . . SHOCKED!

As for The Budlong's part, it could not have gone better. Everything we ordered was actually delivered. The packaging they use, mostly paperboard clam shells, is perfect for the application. Our food arrived in stellar condition . . . hot, still crispy and, as an extra bonus, looking beautiful. Even the pickle slices were still sitting nicely atop the glistening leg quarters. I really was pleased to see it. Everything we ordered was excellent. The chicken (the aforementioned pieces and a well-made sandwich), the biscuits, the greens, the slaw . . . just excellent across the board.

I'd just about sworn off Caviar but I had so many credits from all the gaffes they'd made in the past, I decided to place one last order just to use up the credits. The Budlong performed so well, they pulled Caviar right out the fire. But still, next time I'm going to eat there. I'm actually excited to experience it in person.

=R=

Well you sold me!

Haha, the unintentional side effects of unbridled enthusiasm.

=R=

I recently tried the Lincoln Square Budlong. Living two blocks away, I have been eagerly awaiting its opening. Unfortunately, my first visit was likely my last.

Love the space, had excellent service and the food was fine. Curmudgeon alert: this place is way too expensive. I feel that it is somewhat frowned upon on this site to factor price into our commentary, but for some of us, it is a factor. Nine bucks for a quarter chicken “plate”* ?!?! With no sides.

I understand the economics; rent is high, so is other overhead, along with the cost of Portlandia chickens and expectations of investors. However, economics also need to take into account what the market will bear, volume, location, competition and other factors. I could see these prices being acceptable and sustainable downtown amidst office buildings and heavier foot traffic, but good luck in this spot.

Let me put it this way, I live two blocks away. Would you rather have people like me (not personality-wise but customer potential-wise) come in once or twice a week to spend six or seven bucks (about the price of equivalent meal at The Roost, btw), or to come in once every few months to spend nine bucks? Again, that is without sides, drink, tax, tip. I actually spent nearly twenty when all was said and done. I’d much rather go to Harold’s or The Roost.

Jared seems like a great dude and I admire his passion and commitment. Please just consider this some constructive feedback and a point of reference for people who might care about the tradeoff between price and satisfaction.

* plate means you get a slice of Texas Toast and two pickle slices

I recently tried the Lincoln Square Budlong. Living two blocks away, I have been eagerly awaiting its opening. Unfortunately, my first visit was likely my last.

Love the space, had excellent service and the food was fine. Curmudgeon alert: this place is way too expensive. I feel that it is somewhat frowned upon on this site to factor price into our commentary, but for some of us, it is a factor. Nine bucks for a quarter chicken “plate”* ?!?! With no sides.

I understand the economics; rent is high, so is other overhead, along with the cost of Portlandia chickens and expectations of investors. However, economics also need to take into account what the market will bear, volume, location, competition and other factors. I could see these prices being acceptable and sustainable downtown amidst office buildings and heavier foot traffic, but good luck in this spot.

Hey alessio20... Thanks for coming in to try us. Some of the factors you mentioned - using a good quality bird, nice buildout, etc. are factors. Some that you didn't mention were eco-friendly packaging, higher wages in Chicago, using premium oil, premium fryers with filtration systems to make the best chicken possible, our slurry, breading, and hot paste... along with making every single side, sauce, dressing, and even pickles in house... Our approach to cooking is the same as in a fine dining restaurant - everything fresh, everything from scratch, everything top quality. While we are more expensive than Harold's (or Roost I suppose), the quality reflects that.

To be transparent, our food costs are 30 %, and our labor is around 30%. We try to keep our prime # (labor + food) at or below 60%. If you don't do this, you will fail (which is why many do). 10% to rent, 15-20% to equipment, maintenance, management, legal fees, licensing, insurance, etc. That leaves me with approximately 10% profit margins that we pay 30-40% taxes on. So, when a customer pays $9 for a chicken 1/4, we can hope to make .90 or .60 after taxes.
Eating out has become expensive over the past 10 years - with labor, taxes, food costs, etc. all on the rise. Add to that fast casual restaurants that make everything from scratch - while I get that it's not cheap, it's also not gauging or overpriced...

Would you rather have a great restaurant that prices their food responsibly and stays in business, or an inexperienced operator that runs on too slim of margins and doesn't last a year?

I probably went on longer than I needed to, but those are the #'s. I admit, when I opened RUB I charged $7 for a pulled pork sandwich because I understood restaurants as a consumer - now I understand the real #'s and what to charge to stay in business and pay my staff a living wage (my dishwashers makes $14/hour)... I am trying to help you understand the prices, not defend my position (though I suppose I am doing both). hope that all makes sense..

Gotta get back to my chickens....

Jared

Jared,

I truly appreciate your quick, thoughtful and candid response. Your transparency is commendable, and you did a great job explaining your pricing in a concise manner. I did not find it defensive at all, as I hope you did not take my post as being offensive.

Like I said you’re a great guy, and also I wish you the best. I won’t get into a debate over your pricing strategy and the long term tradeoff of margin vs. volume vs. cost-reducing / value increasing options. This is your business and I have no doubt you’ve done your homework. I still ain’t paying nine bucks for a quarter chicken *, but you don’t need me ☺. I will be back to your bbq spot though, one of my faves.

* Edited to add: actually I might be back, if only as a sign of support and appreciation for the way you reward your employees and treat customers.

All the best!!

Jared,

I truly appreciate your quick, thoughtful and candid response. Your transparency is commendable, and you did a great job explaining your pricing in a concise manner. I did not find it defensive at all, as I hope you did not take my post as being offensive.

Well thank you for supporting our passions... We love what we do, but can't do it without customers. We appreciate you...

PS - let this be an example to all internet-ers of a thoughtful, respectful, back-and-forth of valid points of view and opinions between friends in food... it was a pleasure..

Jared

As another data point, I find myself eating at the Budlong and Gus's much more than any other fried chicken joint, because I consider them the 2 best in the area. Sure I wish it were cheaper, but I'm willing to make that sacrifice.

And if we're comparing, I wouldn't even bother w the Roost at these 2 price points. Sorry but I don't think it's even close...

I'll skip the debate on authenticity (and overalls). Let's discuss price. I think it's fair to bring up because my wife and I had the same discussion the last time we grabbed Budlong, so alessio's not the only one thinking this...

I'd say Budlong's real contemporaries are the two other 'fancy' quick service chicken spots - Roost and Honey Butter. HBFC's 2 piece is $8.50 and their 4 piece is $16. Roost's 1/4 is $6.50 and their 1/2 is $10.50. The Budlong's 1/4 is $9 and their 1/2 is $16 (add a buck more for white).

So Roost is clearly less expensive than the other two, and Budlong and HBFC are basically even in price on paper. However, from my experiences, there is a clear difference in the size of the chickens being used at Budlong compared to the others. Simply put, Budlong serves monster pieces of chicken. A 1/4 at Budlong leaves me stuffed, and a 1/2 chicken is enough for two people. If I add a biscuit, I'm pretty much immobile. HFBC, with their 'creative boning' thing, makes their 2 piece more of a snack.

If Budlong was a buck or two cheaper I'd probably be ordering it an inappropriate amount. BUT, it seems like that extra buck or two is going into making it what it is - the best fried chicken in Chicago right now, so I'm happy with the give/take and making it more of an occasional visit. No disrespect to getting a bucket from Harold's or Popeyes, which I'll gladly eat, but comparing those price points is a fallacy because they're doing something different. I know Taco Bell is cheaper than L'Patron too.

Fried chicken generally has a fairly high elasticity of demand, which makes RubBBQco's pitch toward a corporate ethos prudent and necessary to offset the effect of his pricing.

The crude, since-deleted, rambling did try to counter the sentimental appeal by pointing at expansion and scale as being in contrast to the quality-control and human capital investments. But he drowned any persuasive value out with babble by a factor of 100.

bweiny wrote:Fried chicken generally has a fairly high elasticity of demand, which makes RubBBQco's pitch toward a corporate ethos prudent and necessary to offset the effect of his pricing.

The crude, since-deleted, rambling did try to counter the sentimental appeal by pointing at expansion and scale as being in contrast to the quality-control and human capital investments. But he drowned any persuasive value out with babble by a factor of 100.

I don't see the point of commenting on a deleted post that must have come and gone very quickly.

scottsol wrote:I don't see the point of commenting on a deleted post that must have come and gone very quickly.

It may not provide value to you, I only seek to provide an objective analysis consistent with the subject being discussed. The subject of price-point/value continued on after the deletion. I limited my reference to the only salient point made, and restated it for clarity.

Despite being removed, somebody else said it first. Seems disingenuous for me to speak as though I claim original authorship.

The removed post went well beyond criticism of the establishment and its pricing practices, and squarely into the realm of personal attack with tones of racism, hence its removal.

=R=
for the Moderators

I do think bweiny's point concerning the demand elasticity of fried chicken is well taken, and I appreciate the tactful way in which the point was made. The price of fried chicken is something we've talked about before and no doubt will again.

"Overall", it was a good decision to remove the post (see what I did there )

rubbbqco wrote:"Overall", it was a good decision to remove the post (see what I did there )

Exactly! That post was DOA. Your levity then and now were perfect.

admich wrote:I'll skip the debate on authenticity (and overalls). Let's discuss price. I think it's fair to bring up because my wife and I had the same discussion the last time we grabbed Budlong, so alessio's not the only one thinking this...

I'd say Budlong's real contemporaries are the two other 'fancy' quick service chicken spots - Roost and Honey Butter. HBFC's 2 piece is $8.50 and their 4 piece is $16. Roost's 1/4 is $6.50 and their 1/2 is $10.50. The Budlong's 1/4 is $9 and their 1/2 is $16 (add a buck more for white).

So Roost is clearly less expensive than the other two, and Budlong and HBFC are basically even in price on paper. However, from my experiences, there is a clear difference in the size of the chickens being used at Budlong compared to the others. Simply put, Budlong serves monster pieces of chicken. A 1/4 at Budlong leaves me stuffed, and a 1/2 chicken is enough for two people. If I add a biscuit, I'm pretty much immobile. HFBC, with their 'creative boning' thing, makes their 2 piece more of a snack.

If Budlong was a buck or two cheaper I'd probably be ordering it an inappropriate amount. BUT, it seems like that extra buck or two is going into making it what it is - the best fried chicken in Chicago right now, so I'm happy with the give/take and making it more of an occasional visit. No disrespect to getting a bucket from Harold's or Popeyes, which I'll gladly eat, but comparing those price points is a fallacy because they're doing something different. I know Taco Bell is cheaper than L'Patron too.

What is the weight of that monster chicken quarter? The one that sells for $9 with bread and pickles.

Lenny007 wrote:What is the weight of that monster chicken quarter? The one that sells for $9 with bread and pickles.

Oddly enough I left my scale at home the last time I went out to eat fried chicken.

But I get it. You don't think the value's there. Personally, I think you can argue it's equal to (or greater than) some of their contemporaries. In fact I just did that a few posts above. Some people are never going to be ok with a $10 salad or sandwich, either. Different strokes...

Lenny007 wrote:What is the weight of that monster chicken quarter? The one that sells for $9 with bread and pickles.

Well, if you have to ask . . .

=R=

admich wrote:

Lenny007 wrote:What is the weight of that monster chicken quarter? The one that sells for $9 with bread and pickles.

Oddly enough I left my scale at home the last time I went out to eat fried chicken.

But I get it. You don't think the value's there. I think you can argue it's equal to (or greater than) some of their contemporaries. Some people are never going to be ok with a $10 salad or sandwich, either. Different strokes...

Yup. It's a matter of "perceived value"......actually "perceived" everything. Some have no problem paying whatever price to get what they consider to be a better quality and/or tasty sandwich. Others will say why pay $9 at budlong when I can get chicken for a fraction of the price at Popeyes. To some there is a huge difference in quality/taste/etc. to others Chicken is chicken.

It's funny where we place that fence. I have argued on here in the past about the cost and value of Shake Shack burgers in relation to the competition, but have no problem with paying for Gus' or Budlong chicken vs. others.

In other news, I heard the chicken is "insanely" delicious... (trying to get us back on track re: chicken, etc.)... I am, obviously, biased in this observation - and quite proud.
http://chicagoist.com/2017/04/21/the_bu ... ly_goo.php

So you're saying the insanely good product justifies the insanely high prices

Frankly, I would think discussions of pricing would make more sense in the professional forum. Be that at is may, I would love to hear what accounts for the price difference between Budlong fried and BBQSC smoked.

admich wrote:

Lenny007 wrote:What is the weight of that monster chicken quarter? The one that sells for $9 with bread and pickles.

Oddly enough I left my scale at home the last time I went out to eat fried chicken.

But I get it. You don't think the value's there. Personally, I think you can argue it's equal to (or greater than) some of their contemporaries. In fact I just did that a few posts above. Some people are never going to be ok with a $10 salad or sandwich, either. Different strokes...

I was interested in the supply side. I recall he posted food is around 30% of sales. I used to buy hard chicken by boxes (20 in the box and it is the most expensive chicken) and chicken bones by 100's of Lbs. Either his chicken is insanely expensive or it is more like an eagle. But as you said different strokes... LOL. I like caviar, both salmon and sturgeon. Lamb is nice too, and it is quite inexpensive in Restaurant Depot.

thetrob wrote:

admich wrote:

Lenny007 wrote:
Yup. It's a matter of "perceived value"......actually "perceived" everything. Some have no problem paying whatever price to get what they consider to be a better quality and/or tasty sandwich. Others will say why pay $9 at budlong when I can get chicken for a fraction of the price at Popeyes. To some there is a huge difference in quality/taste/etc. to others Chicken is chicken.

It's funny where we place that fence. I have argued on here in the past about the cost and value of Shake Shack burgers in relation to the competition, but have no problem with paying for Gus' or Budlong chicken vs. others.

Somewhat off topic. Years ago my buddy managed several Brown's Chicken stores for franchisee and he always told me Popeyes is dangerous. I never liked the taste of Popeyes, so I couldn't agree with him. Well, Brown's got almost wiped out and Popeyes has been recently sold to Burger King owners...
My buddy was approached by Highland Baking when it did only $5 Mil in sales and I loved their breads. At this time he is their COO with $125 Mil in annual sales and their products are quite average.

Lenny007 wrote:What is the weight of that monster chicken quarter? The one that sells for $9 with bread and pickles.

FWIW, the extra one that I ordered tonight and put in the fridge for lunch tomorrow weighs 11 1/4 oz.

While I really liked the chicken, I have to admit that I'm a bit disappointed by the heat.

I've never been to Nashville, so I have no point of comparison, but the Extra Hot just... wasn't. The chicken was cooked perfectly, the meat was delicious, the service was great, the biscuit was easily the best I've ever had, the was skin crisp and tasty. I just didn't taste much heat.

I went to the location on Armitage, if that makes any difference.

I've asked an employee about this before (spiciness not being really spicy) and they said they had to adjust their levels for their audience here. I can say that having medium in Nashville at Bolton's is FAR hotter than hot at Budlong. That said, the chicken is way higher quality, the fry is better, and the spicing more complex at Budlong. That is, I'd take Budlong over Bolton's in Nashville any day of the week.

HT70 wrote:That is, I'd take Budlong over Bolton's in Nashville any day of the week.

Me too, even though Bolton's was not without its own charms.

=R=

HT70 wrote:I've asked an employee about this before (spiciness not being really spicy) and they said they had to adjust their levels for their audience here.

Interesting - was it your understanding that this was a change from the get-go or something done later in response to feedback? I ask only because my only experience is with the Revival Food Hall location; I probably get something from that Budlong every 2 or 3 weeks. When it first opened I had a "classic", not having any experience. I thought it had a nice satisfying heat, hotter than I initially expected for that level, but was relatively easy to manage. The next time I went for the "Hot" and thought it was pretty hot - the kind that makes me perspire, but all in a good way. I instantly settled on "Hot, dark" as my go-to. After a couple more visits I suddenly found that the "Hot" was no longer as hot as even my original "Classic". So I wondered if, as often happens, the heat levels had been toned down. As others here have said, everything else is still fantastic - the quality of the chicken, the fry and juicyness, etc. I just miss the heat and have been dragging my feet on going "Extra Hot" for fear that it might blow my head off if it was just some anomalous samples I'd had vs an actual restructuring of the heat levels.

Jared, any thoughts?