Burts is a fairly nice place. Their strength is that it is still a warm and friendly, little mom and pop restaurant. We don't have many of those anymore. The owner's are old fashion and I doubt that you'll ever see a website for them. Their's is a more laid-back little business, not too busy, except maybe on the weekend. And during the week their restaurant is not "bustling" busy like that at Geno's, Malanati's, or some of the other pan pizza restaurants, except on some occasions. But their pizza is quite good, however, maybe not the greatest, but they don't have the factory mentality behind their business either. Maybe not the best in the Chicago area, but definitely among the best. While the pizza often is a little bland as someone mentioned above, you can ask for items to spice it up. We need to support such mom and pop places like this.

I have to say, after reading all of the praises here, the wife and I decided to try Burt's. I'm typically a lurker here on LTH, but feel I need to post about this one. We walked in and as described here on LTH, the place is old fashioned. While many board members here consider that a plus (no big business involvement, no Plasma TVs) we found it kind of dingy and drab - but we understood that that was the experience we were in for. On to what's important, the Pizza:

Our Pizza was OK. I'm not going to run back, but I can't say that I'll never return. We ordered half spinach, half sausage. The Sausage was so sporadically placed around the pizza, that each slice only had a small chunk. I for the most part was eating a plain cheese pizza. Not being a fan of hot peppers or other toppings, I prefer to get my taste from the sauce and cheese, but the taste was really absent. The crust and cheese along with the sauce are as bland as it gets.

If you're looking for a friendly old style dining experience, I would suggest giving Burt's a try. Go in with an open mind though. Don't go in thinking you're about to experience the best pizza ever. I think all of the fanboys here on LTH are severely overrating the experience and the food, the pizza is alright, nothing great, but from reading this forum you'd get the impression that it was to die for.

Kesey wrote:I think all of the fanboys here on LTH are severely overrating the experience and the food, the pizza is alright, nothing great, but from reading this forum you'd get the impression that it was to die for.

Kesey,

Love it, Fanboys, I have a new word.

I enjoy reading the Burt's ~shrug~ posts as much as the love it posts as a wide range of opinion is what makes LTHForum interesting.

Personally, I am fan of Burt's, I order a medium, which has a good ratio of crisp, caramelized crust to inside, Burt adds jalapeno, onion, garlic and sausage or, if I'm feeling saucy, fresh habanero instead of jalapeno. This is a great pizza, but pizza is personal and I can easily see it not tripping everyone's trigger.

I'm also a fan of the personal, homey, and homespun, atmosphere at Burt's, find Burt and Sharon charming and endearing, but, once again, can easily see how others might perceive differently.

Enjoy,
Gary 'if everyone liked the exact same thing, you'd all want to marry my wife' Wiv

I'm just curious if the sauce at Pequods is better tasting than Burt's? I haven't been to either restaurant but from the couple posts above mine they claim the sauce at Burt's is somewhat bland. I'm just curious if the pizza (not the experience) tastes better at Pequods as they also char the crust like Burt's?

/polster

I'm going to have my chance to try Burt's pizza for the first time in a week or two, as part of a roundabout day trip to Oak Park and back. I'm going to take a nonLTHer, a family member, with me. I'm curious to see whether we'll end up raving or shrugging.

Calling ahead is mentioned as advisable here and other places on the internet, but I don't see how we can do that til we have been there for the first time and have (I'm assuming this will be available) a copy of the carryout/delivery menu to take home with us.

G Wiv wrote:I am fan of Burt's, I order a medium, which has a good ratio of crisp, caramelized crust to inside

I've heard the word "caramelized" used to describe the cheese on the outside edge of the crust at Burt's and Pequod's, but isn't that really a misnomer? That word normally refers to the process of heating sugar to turn it into caramel. Cheese can't caramelize; it can burn or brown or blacken or scorch or char, but it doesn't turn into caramel. No?

I tried looking up the definition on a few websites, and here are a couple of the ones I found (the second site had a lot more detailed information about the process if anyone's interested):

Caramelization
Browning sugar over a flame, with or without the addition of some water to aid the process. The temperature range in which sugar caramelizes is approximately 320º F to 360º F (160º C to 182º C).

Caramelization
Caramelization is the familiar browning of sugars through exposure to heat.

Cheese contains lactose, a sugar.

I'm no food chemist, but I agree with nxstasy: browned cheese is not my idea of carmelization. It's just a browned/burnt crust on the cheese; it's not a transformation of the flavor of the cheese as a whole.

nsxtasy wrote:I tried looking up the definition on a few websites,

Nsx,

It can get confusing, for example, I often say to my wife "would you like like caramelized bread with your over easy eggs?" I probably should be saying maillard reaction, not caramelized, but that seems a little awkward.

Enjoy,
Gary

Katie wrote:Calling ahead is mentioned as advisable here and other places on the internet, but I don't see how we can do that til we have been there for the first time and have (I'm assuming this will be available) a copy of the carryout/delivery menu to take home with us.

You can still call ahead. When you do, just say it's your first time and they'll be happy to give you the run down on the available ingredients.

G Wiv wrote:

nsxtasy wrote:I tried looking up the definition on a few websites,

Nsx,

It can get confusing, for example, I often say to my wife "would you like like caramelized bread with your over easy eggs?" I probably should be saying maillard reaction, not caramelized, but that seems a little awkward.

Enjoy,
Gary

Try offering toast, it goes nicely with over easy eggs.

YoYoPedro wrote:Try offering toast, it goes nicely with over easy eggs.

Yo,

Thank you for the suggestion, it will receive the same consideration as your past suggestions, comments etc.

Regards,
Gary

I've heard the word "caramelized" used to describe the cheese on the outside edge of the crust at Burt's and Pequod's, but isn't that really a misnomer? That word normally refers to the process of heating sugar to turn it into caramel. Cheese can't caramelize; it can burn or brown or blacken or scorch or char, but it doesn't turn into caramel. No?

I have noted from your prior posts that you seem very fond of links; I suggest you review the following explanations of Maillard's Reaction and caramelization, both of which are processes producing non-enzymatic browning. The remaining lactose in cheese can certainly caramelize, just like the sugars in onions and other vegetables, particularly root vegetables. You might find these helpful in understanding both very complex chemical reactions:

Caramelization

Maillard's Reaction

Well, I guess the point I was getting at was that I don't taste sweetness in their crust. If anyone hears of "carmelization" and as a result expects the browned cheese crust of Pequod's or Burt's pizza to taste sweet (or to taste like caramel), he or she is likely to be disappointed, IMHO. I'm not saying it tastes good or bad - it is what it is - only that it may be misleading to use that term to refer to it.

Do others here think their crust actually tastes sweet? Or am I the only one who doesn't think so?

sundevilpeg wrote:

I've heard the word "caramelized" used to describe the cheese on the outside edge of the crust at Burt's and Pequod's, but isn't that really a misnomer? That word normally refers to the process of heating sugar to turn it into caramel. Cheese can't caramelize; it can burn or brown or blacken or scorch or char, but it doesn't turn into caramel. No?

I have noted from your prior posts that you seem very fond of links; I suggest you review the following explanations of Maillard's Reaction and caramelization, both of which are processes producing non-enzymatic browning. The remaining lactose in cheese can certainly caramelize, just like the sugars in onions and other vegetables, particularly root vegetables. You might find these helpful in understanding both very complex chemical reactions:

Caramelization

Maillard's Reaction

From the Wikipedia entries, it seems like the pizza crust could be experiencing both caramelization and Maillard's Reaction, correct? Since toast (the bread-like crust) browning is described as a Maillard Reaction, and sugar (the lactose in the cheese) changing color is caramelization?

From the Wikipedia entries, it seems like the pizza crust could be experiencing both caramelization and Maillard's Reaction, correct? Since toast (the bread-like crust) browning is described as a Maillard Reaction, and sugar (the lactose in the cheese) changing color is caramelization?

That could indeed be the case. Quite a complex series of multiple chemical reactions involved here.

Burt's pizza = A TASTY MIRACLE OF SCIENCE!!

Like Katie, I'm no food chemist, but couldn't a connection between the dough being a carbohydrate and sugar being a carbohydrate be drawn to equal caramelization? It's not exact but you get the idea. There's a difference between what happens when you make toast and what's going on on Burt's crust.

I'm sure it also has to do with the probably ancient pans he uses that have been very well seasoned over the years.

sundevilpeg wrote:Burt's pizza = A TASTY MIRACLE OF SCIENCE!!

We need Alton Brown on the phone, stat!

Kesey wrote:Our Pizza was OK. I'm not going to run back, but I can't say that I'll never return. The Sausage was so sporadically placed around the pizza, that each slice only had a small chunk. I for the most part was eating a plain cheese pizza.

Unfortunately, that's true. Burts does not put much sausage on their pizzas compared to other places. When I've had a sausage pizza, it turned out to be mostly a cheese pizza. That's one area that Burts can improve in.

I suppose that the dialectic above helped prepare me fairly well for my recent, first trip to Burt's. I enjoyed the food and the experience very much even if the the near-complete lack of surprise was, well, surprising.

I thought the pizza was excellent for the deep-dish category. My favorite aspect was the relatively short crust, which had a great, crispy bottom and delivered rich flavor throughout the chew. I also liked the tomatoes and the cheese -- including the caramelized band of cheese that encircled our pies. The meat toppings were also tasty. I preferred the sausage to the pepperoni but both were enjoyable. While I didn't care very much for the veggie pizza, the poor misguided soul in our party who ordered it loved it. And I will admit that unlike with other, similar pizzas of this type, each vegetable provided its own distinctive flavor and texture. You could really taste them individually.

My wife, who is normally fairly 'meh' about pizza in general claimed that this is the pie she's been "waiting for her whole life." Of course, the old gal married me, so I'm not sure how particular she is. In any case, what she liked was the fact that Burt's pizza is not as doughy as most deep dish pizzas, it's very crispy on the bottom and more substantial than most thin crust pies. She really loved the vegetable toppings, too, which I have already admitted to liking, as well.

Atmosphere-wise, the place is completely charming, IMO. I can't say it's overly comfortable but the distinctive character more than makes up for it. Service, provided by Sharon, was remarkably friendly and the ever-affable Burt also provided a helpful hand in the dining room, refilling beverages and plates. Both of them are very pleasant and it's clear that they're both genuinely concerned with providing customer satisfaction.


Sausage and pepperoni



Sausage, pepperoni and onion



Spinach, mushroom and onion

Deep dish pizza is not my favorite by any means but when I am in the mood for it again, I will definitely hit Burt's. For me, it's at the top of the heap, category-wise. Thinking about better deep dish -- especially in the northern burbs -- is confounding. I'm not really a true fan of the genre but I cannot think of another deep dish that surpasses Burt's -- especially within the same range from my house. For me, it's more enjoyable than Uno, Due, Giordano's, Gino's East or Pequods. I'd put it right up there with my favorite deep dish, Lou Malnati's (when they're on). But with the possible exception of their original Lincolnwood shop, Burt's is a much more inviting and charming place than Malnati's.

Thanks, LTH, for the knowledge.

=R=

Burt's Place
8541 N. Ferris
Morton Grove, IL
847 965-7997

ronnie_suburban wrote:And I will admit that unlike with other, similar pizzas of this type, each vegetable provided its own distinctive flavor and texture. You could really taste them individually.

Last time I was there, Burt was waxing philosophic on his vegetable sourcing. He said he goes out every morning and buys just enough fresh vegetables for the day. He admitted that he could get a better deal if he bought in bulk, and used them up over a longer period of time, but he said depending on his orders day to day, larger quantities might not last long enough to meet his freshness criteria, and he might have to throw some out. So, in his words, "If I spend more [for a smaller quantity of veggies], I save money."

I think it's that attention to detail that makes Burt's so great.

nice! good 2 hear you made it out there... im a fan of burt's spinach, sausage and onion pie

Thanks for bumping this thread- the Burt's conversation has drifted back to the Pequod's thread, and it really shouldn't have to share with them.

I was at Burt's last night and the woman who is eating the piece of pizza on the front cover of Saveur was also there. Through the conversation she was having with Burt, I learned that Saveur asked if they could come in and shoot photos...she happened to be there that night eating a colorful pizza, so the chose her.

Awhile later, a guy walked in, looking confused. He thought the place was going to be a bar that served pizza, not a pizza place that also served beer and wine. He ordered a pizza to go, and while he waited, grilled Burt and Sharon about Pequod's, Gulliver's, The Inferno....the Pequod's portion of the conversation was especially painful to watch....painful for the guy, not Sharon. The guy was as thick as a brick wall and didn't really take the hint when Sharon said, "They're dead. Old history. Don't care."

I have a feeling this will be a line of questioning repeated over and over after the magazine comes out.

First, let me start by saying I love Burt's. It's my new go to pizza.

Tried to order one for pick up last night (a saturday). The line was busy for quite a long time. I started calling at 7:30 and did not give up until 8:30 when hunger overtook me and I gave in and ordered Malnati's. I even did the repeat dialing thing where it will call you back when the line is not busy. Never got a call back in the 30 minute time span it allows to call you back.

I guess there could have been trouble with the line.

I know since the articles and pub he's been getting lately, weekends have been fairly crazy there. Given the "eccentricities" involved with eating at Burt's, could it be possible that Burt takes the old rotary off the hook when things get really crazy? Mind you, I'm not accusing, just inquiring.

Bingo ... it's been known he takes the phone off the hook.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:Bingo ... it's been known he takes the phone off the hook.

That sucks!

I was explaining the preferred "rules" of eating at Burt's to someone, and after hearing about how Burt will tell folks that it's Pizza Only at busy times and that they like you to call ahead etc, this person remarked that it sounds like Burt's Place is the Soup Store from Seinfeld. LOL

The thing is, Burt makes the dough ahead of time, and when he runs out, he runs out. So, with the bump in orders lately, he may be anticipating his capacity for the evening just a bit earlier than before. That said, Cathy, jygach, helen, and I ate there Friday. The place was full, and there was a steady stream of takeout orders being retrieved throughout the evening.

Apparently the SAVEUR effect is in full swing, with new customers from as far away as Alaska. One recent patron sent an assistant over from a private jet to pick up Burt's pizza and take back to New York. MOVE OVER ORIGINAL RAY'S!

Eric wrote:Tried to order one for pick up last night (a saturday). The line was busy for quite a long time. I started calling at 7:30 and did not give up until 8:30 when hunger overtook me and I gave in and ordered Malnati's.

I ran into the same thing on a Wednesday or Thursday a couple of weeks ago. I ended up ordering from Marie's instead. A couple days later, I called Burt early (just after opening) and put in an order for a pizza to be ready at 7:30 that night. That plan worked perfectly. When the appointed time rolled around, I showed up at Burt's and my pizza was ready.

A childhood friend was in town this week visiting family so I schlepped to the old neighborhood and we dropped in to Burt's on Friday. We grew up on Burts (first at Pequods and now here) and fortunately got a table with no waiting. The kitchen was hopping with pizzas for both the dining room and take out orders.

Saturday night husband and I were at my parent's house (just blocks away) to bring my sick mother some soup. The rest of us needed dinner so I tried to call...and tried...and tried. I gave up and went to order in person. They were ever busier than the night before and I understood why they'd take the phone off the hook. One couple in line before me had stopped in to pre-order pizza for a large group and planned to return about an hour later. I placed my order and returned to pick up the pizza. I'm glad I just hopped into the car and I didn't give up although I think I'm still full from eating so much pizza two days in a row.

Josephine wrote:The thing is, Burt makes the dough ahead of time, and when he runs out, he runs out. So, with the bump in orders lately, he may be anticipating his capacity for the evening just a bit earlier than before.

While he is anticipating the increase in business with larger batches of dough at the outset, he is still making fresh batches throughout the night. The problem comes with the dough needing to proof and set repeatedly before it can be used. At some point, even if he makes that extra batch of dough, it will not be ready for use in time to make any appreciable difference.

Josephine wrote:Apparently the SAVEUR effect is in full swing, with new customers from as far away as Alaska. One recent patron sent an assistant over from a private jet to pick up Burt's pizza and take back to New York. MOVE OVER ORIGINAL RAY'S!

Actually, unless this is a separate incident, those pizzas, along with a sack of Italian Beef sandwiches from Mr. Beef, were headed to L.A.

We are seeing a huge influx of "foreigners"; folks from virtually every state in the union and even a strong showing of international customers. One night, purely by coincidence, we had an Aussie and a New Zealander sitting back to back at the front window booths!

Diannie wrote:The rest of us needed dinner so I tried to call...and tried...and tried. I gave up and went to order in person. They were ever busier than the night before and I understood why they'd take the phone off the hook. One couple in line before me had stopped in to pre-order pizza for a large group and planned to return about an hour later.

And this is where the real problem lies-single callers placing orders for multiple pizzas. When folks are ordering three, four, and five pizzas, frequently XL or even XXLs, two telephone calls and a one third full dining room can tie up the oven for an hour or more.

Let's make it clear that we really do appreciate everyone's business, from the old established neighborhood folks, some of whom we've been seeing for ten years plus, to the more recent LTH crowd that has by and large put us on the map (an extra big Thank You!), to the swarms of Saveur readers who are just discovering us. The thing to remember is that our dining room holds 35 people and no more, there is only one guy in back making all the pizzas, and only one oven that will only hold so many pans at one time.

And therein lies the paradox. If Burt had a staff of people making pizzas in a big modern kitchen with multiple ovens, the pizza wouldn't be the same and we wouldn't be deserving of the accolades being thrown our way. Conversely, if you want the same consistent quality, given the sudden burst in popularity, there will be times when we just have to put a hold on incoming orders so we can give the best possible food and service to the diners on hand.

Even on Saturday nights, with both Sharon and myself working the floor (a task I used to do alone in the pre-Saveur days), there are long stretches where it feels like that "I Love Lucy" episode where Lucy and Ethel are working in the chocolate factory and that assembly line just keeps getting faster and faster and no matter how hard you work to keep up with it, you're still falling behind.

The good news is that we've been through this before in the Pequod days. We were the subject of newspaper articles (many of which are still hanging on the walls at Burt's), television and radio stories on a very frequent basis. Every time there was some new exposure, we would see this same explosion of business for a few weeks or a month, it would taper off with us retaining about 10-20% of the new customers and things would get back to "normal" until the next write up came along.

The bad news is, Time Out is doing another article on Chicago Pizza, with Burt figuring in prominently, in the issue that comes out later this week. So the madness is not going to quiet down anytime soon it would seem.

Once again, we appreciate everyone's support and we hope you will afford us some patience as we bask (or run around madly) in the limelight a bit longer.

Thank you folks,

Buddy

P.S. stevez's approach of calling just after opening (or even before opening) is the best way to guarantee you will get through. Even if you're wanting to come in much later in the evening, an early call will help us in planning our strategy for the coming night. Of course, if everyone tries calling at the same time, the same problems will eventually result.

B.